Full-length LotR Parody Movies

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

By the way - what does "huine" mean in your name?

'Shadow'. It's the Quenya cognate of Taur-na-Fuin, though not quite as ominous. Depending on how I-made-this-name-in-2002 I'm feeling the name means anything from 'The shadow of an Eagle's wings as it passes overhead' to 'Evil Shadow-eagle'.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Uhhh, we definitely need to re-record the choir. Hearing it with the accompaniment just emphasizes the spots that need to be fixed. I will try to arrange with Elanor to get that done this week. And if we redo everything, we'll do it at the slightly slower pace - unless you wanna go even slower? It's all up for grabs still.

I'm happy with either speed; I know my own recording needs redoing, so take all the time you need.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

How did you find that?! I thought I searched the length and breadth of Youtube when I was first posting about the different versions. I have seen clips of some of the performances, but not the whole collections. And not the 2020 and garden plays.

Mucking about while 'working' is a great incentive. ^_^ I think the 2020 version probably went up after you searched, if that helps.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

It sounds good! Tbh, when I was rewatching the videos a while ago, I thought you'd already done it, because they sounded good.

Heh. I need to redo a couple of slides in the Lament anyway, so I'll put it all in at once.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Speaking of rewatching the finished videos... I went back to the Duel to try and find Menelmacar - it's Orion, right?

It is Orion, but, um... I can't see it either. I'm sure I drew it, but it's gotten all hidden. :-/

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Done up to "when I am left alone in this darkness".

Sounds good! My usual 'I don't know music' response fits well here, I think. ^_~

... and! Right, right, right! We have a video!

Wind (Amarie's Dream)

I may be biased, but I think Celebestel did an amazing job here. I also really like the graphic effects - but also am never doing them again. There's 112 separate images in this video.

This is also Finrod V3, who will be put back into the previous videos when I get a chance.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

... and! Right, right, right! We have a video!

OMG!!!

The leaves are fantastic. I can see why you are never doing that again, but it was totally worth it.

I think the only thing now missing from it being perfect is a wind-blowing sound effect at the end. ^.^
(May I recommend using a sippet of this recording? Or is it too much fuss to add more sounds?)



Today my plan was to finish Captivity up to the confusing part. And then I figured out my mistake that made it confusing. And then I finished Finrod's section. And added an ending. And edited the spots that were bothering me. And basically, I'm happy with it, except that I will likely need to edit the choir sections once I hear what it sounds like with the voice - I haven't done any of that yet. I am particularly pleased with the second half of the piece, when Finrod starts singing solo onwards. I feel like my musical creativity in the first half went into the vocals, but the second half has more character. And I think it sounds epic enough to make up for whatever small errors I accumulated in the melody. I like it.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I think the only thing now missing from it being perfect is a wind-blowing sound effect at the end. ^.^
(May I recommend using a sippet of this recording? Or is it too much fuss to add more sounds?)

Nope, I can do that easily. Are you thinking after the music ends (so over the credits), or during one or more of the 'just the wind's?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Today my plan was to finish Captivity up to the confusing part. And then I figured out my mistake that made it confusing. And then I finished Finrod's section. And added an ending. And edited the spots that were bothering me. And basically, I'm happy with it

'aaaay, that's gorgeous! Definitely looking forward to singing it. (And finally, Beren gets a line... I'm inordinately amused that this means Luthien and the Sons of Feanor are the last vocalists to be heard, at least if you ignore the orcs.)

Unrelatedly: lyric mismatch! Amarie calls Finrod my lord of constant change, but back in his Ballad, Finrod talks about my own unchanging nature. These don't technically conflict - my interpretation of Amarie's line is that Finrod keeps flitting from project to project ('Nargowhere? I'm hanging out with mortals now!'), but not that his fundamental nature changes - but it's still an odd mismatch.

I really like the 'lord of constant change' line, so if either is changed I would prefer to change Finrod's. But... to what? 'my ever-changing nature' or 'my own inconstant nature' would scan, but imply something I don't think is fair to the character.

EDIT: Flyby link drop... the Zong videos all appear to be taken from vk.com. Google is perfectly capable of finding all videos with 'Финрод-Зонг' in the title/description on vk, and can even filter to just the long ones. I bet there's stuff here we haven't seen (and will check at lunchtime).

EDIT2: Yep! There's another outdoor version, a 2018 concert split across 16 unconnected videos (all linked in Appendix A), and... er, whatever this is. There's definite Zong music in there, but also stuff I don't recognise (and even some narrative sections!). Given that it's from 2019, some of the weird stuff might possibly be the Daeron songs - want to take a look?

EDIT3: The 2019 video appears to consist of: Ballad to Amarie, Oath, Aria, Unknown 1 (Elvish Walking Song), Unknown 2 (Elvish Drinking Song), a non-sung Duel (presented rather charmingly as a chess game), Unknown 3 (Elven Mourning Song), Epilogue. So yeah, I really have no idea what's going on. The people behind it seem to be trying to do a full Beren and Luthien ?musical ?film ?horse show, but why they've used big chunks of the Zong is beyond me.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Brief note:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

EDIT3: The 2019 video appears to consist of: Ballad to Amarie, Oath, Aria, Unknown 1 (Elvish Walking Song), Unknown 2 (Elvish Drinking Song), a non-sung Duel (presented rather charmingly as a chess game), Unknown 3 (Elven Mourning Song), Epilogue. So yeah, I really have no idea what's going on. The people behind it seem to be trying to do a full Beren and Luthien ?musical ?film ?horse show, but why they've used big chunks of the Zong is beyond me.

This made me curious, because when you said "chest game" I had an idea that this might be drawing again from the fanfic I just read. And then the statue of Amarie and some of Finrod's words confirmed that idea. It was settled when the Sons of Feanor showed up, they bring up a point that's entirely fanfic and does not occur in the originals. I haven't watched past that point yet, but I bet you this version is based on the fic that ?possibly inspired the Zong. I have a feeling I'm gonna have to translate it, or at least summarize it, after all.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Nope, I can do that easily. Are you thinking after the music ends (so over the credits), or during one or more of the 'just the wind's?

I don't know, not sure what it sounds like. I can definitely hear it over the end credits - possibly during the intro - but I'm not sure if it would interfere with vocals if done over them. Though "just the winds" shouldn't be too affected. Whatever sounds good? It would be a cool little detail.

Originally Posted by Hui

'aaaay, that's gorgeous! Definitely looking forward to singing it. (And finally, Beren gets a line... I'm inordinately amused that this means Luthien and the Sons of Feanor are the last vocalists to be heard, at least if you ignore the orcs.)

Ah, but the orcs are going to be so gloriously off tune and relishing it!

Originally Posted by Hui

Unrelatedly: lyric mismatch! Amarie calls Finrod my lord of constant change, but back in his Ballad, Finrod talks about my own unchanging nature. These don't technically conflict - my interpretation of Amarie's line is that Finrod keeps flitting from project to project ('Nargowhere? I'm hanging out with mortals now!'), but not that his fundamental nature changes - but it's still an odd mismatch.

I dislike that line in the Russian very much, for many reasons. One of them is that it's more accusative: "my inconstant / fickle lord". Which I interpreted as Amarie still steaming at Finrod for letting her know of his love for him and then leaving Valinor. And it makes me want to yell in her face: you're the one who's being fickle, unable to decide if you've understood Finrod or not, if you've forgiven him or not, you were supposed to get over this point back in Heart! Finrod is faithful, that's a defining attribute of his character, and if you don't get how he left you but if still faithful, he doesn't deserve you.

... But "lord of constant change" is open to interpretation, and doesn't carry the same unfair accusation.

With regards to Ballad, the Russian doesn't have "unchanging" there. It's "[One] can't curse that I am created this way". I think "unchanging" is not out of place there, because it emphasizes that some things you can change, but some things you're stuck with, you're just made that way. Finrod can't not help a friend in need, he can't not follow his brothers to Beleriand, he can't not follow Beren to Angband. I don't think it necessarily conflicts. However, it's also possible to replace either instance of "change", I don't think either one is that critical that it can't be replaced. I don't think it should me "my own inconstant nature" though, I think that is the opposite of both what he is and what he is trying to say.

Originally Posted by Hui

EDIT3: The 2019 video appears to consist of: Ballad to Amarie, Oath, Aria, Unknown 1 (Elvish Walking Song), Unknown 2 (Elvish Drinking Song), a non-sung Duel (presented rather charmingly as a chess game), Unknown 3 (Elven Mourning Song), Epilogue. So yeah, I really have no idea what's going on. The people behind it seem to be trying to do a full Beren and Luthien ?musical ?film ?horse show, but why they've used big chunks of the Zong is beyond me.

So I can now confirm that this is an abbreviated and incomplete (they warn so in the beginning) rendition of the fanfic - though I don't think they've ever mentioned it by name. The Elvish Walking Song is Finrod's spell that transforms the group into Orcs. The Drinking Song is Beren (notice the plaid?) drowning his shame in wine in Dorthonion, surrounded by servants of Sauron who are there to make sure he does what he's told and kinda hope to convert him to Morgothism (the last one to sing - that's Thuringwethil). The chess-like game is also a symbolic scene from the fic, where Sauron tries to get Finrod to open up while Beren is off in Dorthonion. A brief segue here - the main plot deviation of the fanfic is that Beren, like any rational dude, initially doesn't count on just walking into Angband and demanding a Silmaril, he rather plans a military campaign (that sets the grounds for the Union for Maedhros later) which starts by reclaiming Dorthonion as a strategic territory. When he and Finrod are captured by Sauron, Beren reveals Luthien and the Silmarils and whatnot but keeps the Dorthonion plans secret, and agrees to serve Sauron for a year in exchange for Finrod's life. He is sent to serve Morgoth's army in Dorthonion (which is not as depopulated as The Sil made me imagine). Without giving away the ending of that sub-plot, eventually he rushes back to save Finrod, hoping that he will arrive before he is killed, but he is recaptured - and from that point on, the plot of the Lay/Sil resumes without major changes, starting from the wolf pit on TIG.

It's interesting that they didn't include Truth, which is the only Zong song that has a direct reference to the fic and makes me believe the theory that one inspired the other. The "arrow set in flight" metaphor is one that is used twice in the fic to describe Finrod.

[Huinesoron]

Exciting! Do you know if they keep all the song lyrics the same?

I've just been watching the 2020 stageplay, which is very pretty, but also very neatly gets rid of That Thingol Moment: it casts the Thingol-Melian duet as taking place during the meeting with Beren (Thingol threatens him with a sword!), and then cuts the duet off hard to segue straight into the Aria.

I'm now wishing desperately that it was possible to move the Quarrel to after the Duel, and have it cut off not by Thingol, but by Luthien. I don't think it's possible without rewriting Cel'n'Cur's opening lines, sadly - they're too obviously talking directly after Finrod leaves.

Also the shift might take the focus away from Team Finrod for two long, with three back-to-back Feanorian numbers. Ah, well.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Exciting! Do you know if they keep all the song lyrics the same?

In the ones I've watched (2020 play, garden play, 2019 fanfic play) they kept all the lyrics except for one spot, I forget where though, where in a ballad to someone they switched the speaker and the one spoken to for one of the lines, I wasn't sure of the rationale, but it wasn't anything game-changing. The fanfic play has some unique songs, and I am pretty sure they quoted some of the free text directly from the source material. Oh, and the garden play ends with Melian eloping with Sauron (or possibly Morgoth?).

"Everyone dies
... But the story doesn't end there!"

MELIAN:
In reality everything was different.
Thingol, my husband, was quite the blockhead.
I have long been bored of our Elvish forest.
I want to taste the wonders of the dark side!

?SAURON:
I have long been bored of the cursed Silmaril.
Life in the citadel of evil is dreary without feminine powers
I could have been enticed by Finrod - [censored for family friendly purposes]
But I would have delighted more in a woman's charms.

MELIAN:
Who is this fair man who stands before me?
Is he not destined to me by my fate?
I suddenly understood: I need only you!
I am ready to be yours, O Dark Lord!

SAURON:
Come to me, and we will live without a care in the world
I will [do some censored things]

BOTH:
Together we will finish this eternal war
We will join the forces of light and dark as one!


"And they lived long and happily ever after."


...Sauron here clearly has some unfulfilled erotic fantasies.

Originally Posted by Hui

I've just been watching the 2020 stageplay, which is very pretty, but also very neatly gets rid of That Thingol Moment: it casts the Thingol-Melian duet as taking place during the meeting with Beren (Thingol threatens him with a sword!), and then cuts the duet off hard to segue straight into the Aria.

I'm now wishing desperately that it was possible to move the Quarrel to after the Duel, and have it cut off not by Thingol, but by Luthien. I don't think it's possible without rewriting Cel'n'Cur's opening lines, sadly - they're too obviously talking directly after Finrod leaves.

Also the shift might take the focus away from Team Finrod for two long, with three back-to-back Feanorian numbers. Ah, well.

Yeah, I don't think that's doable without a major re-write of the musical. If Thingol Steals The Mic is taken out completely, Melian needs a different opening for her Aria. If the Aria flows right after their first Duet, is that not too much Thingol-And-Melianing at once? It should be broken up a little. If the quarrel gets moved to a later point - it loses the "right after Finrod left" effect, and still leaves the Aria problem. The other alternative is to change the ending of Quarrel to resolve it in a way where Thingol Doesn't Steal The Mic. And then, somehow at some point, provide another opening for the Aria (theoretically it could go after Dream, but not ideal, because it would break up the sequence of love songs). I don't think it would work in a full musical set-up; I think it only works well for them because they did an abbreviated version.


EDIT: glancing briefly at some of the other stuff you've linked - some of these might be good for musical inspiration and reference. For instance, I overall like Showdown best of all in V2, but there are some with quite good acting, and the 2018 concert has a very musically clear Sauron who will be much easier to copy when the time comes.

Also, I've seen the 2006 outdoor performance before, and I recommend it for the goofs. It's meant for people who already know the play and will get the inside jokes. The actors are having fun with it. Also, it has V1 Finrod where we can see his acting in Truth - though musically I prefer the V1 recording, I am not a fan of the metal version and I think he sings better there.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Oh, and the garden play ends with Melian eloping with Sauron (or possibly Morgoth?).

O.O I've gone ahead and added this to Appendix C ("Much Ado About Nargothrond"), because frankly it deserves to be there.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Yeah, I don't think that's doable without a major re-write of the musical.

I know, I know. The Aria works as a direct follow-on to the Duet if you drop a hard cut right after Thingol name-drops the Silmarils, and go straight to Melian with "Sold your only daughter for a Silmaril" etc, but it means that the play would take two long digressions from Beren and Finrod, which is definitely not workable.

Still, it's nice to imagine a world where Thingol doesn't Steal the Mic.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

EDIT: glancing briefly at some of the other stuff you've linked - some of these might be good for musical inspiration and reference. For instance, I overall like Showdown best of all in V2, but there are some with quite good acting, and the 2018 concert has a very musically clear Sauron who will be much easier to copy when the time comes.

This was my thought too. It might be fun ("fun") to pull together images of all the versions of each character and see which one, or combination of ones, looks best. As I've said before, Amarie is fixed in stone unless I get really bored, but everyone else can be reworked.

I'm currently assembling a list of links at the start of each set of lyrics, so that all the versions are easily findable. Which brings me on to:

I've steadfastly maintained the split from the Libretto between Beren's Coming and Appeal, but I'm not convinced it holds up musically. The 2006 performance has Beren sing exactly the same tune for 'Is this not the wonderous Nargothrond?' and 'I beseech you, lend me your aid, my king'. If you think it's useful to have them separate, cool, but as a non-musician I think they're the same song.

(In contrast, I reckon the four lines that link the Mic Theft to the Aria should stay with the Mic Theft, because they endcap that song. Moving them to the Aria means letting Thingol's actions go unchallenged in the song itself.)

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Also, I've seen the 2006 outdoor performance before, and I recommend it for the goofs. It's meant for people who already know the play and will get the inside jokes. The actors are having fun with it. Also, it has V1 Finrod where we can see his acting in Truth - though musically I prefer the V1 recording, I am not a fan of the metal version and I think he sings better there.

I remember! I went back and used your collection of versions before I went hunting myself.

hS