The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
Old 03-27-2024, 10:30 AM   #10
Galin
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,031
Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.Galin is a guest at the Prancing Pony.
Again, Tolkien himself from his original (published) foreword to The Lord of the Rings:

Quote:
"(. . .) If "composed" is a just word. Bilbo was not assiduous, nor an orderly narrator, and his account is involved and discursive, and sometimes confused: faults that still appear in the Red Book, since the copiers were pious and careful, and altered very little."
But obviously being labelled unreliable doesn't mean "everything" (hyperbole noted) has been confused, or is mere invented Hobbit fancy. Nevertheless, Tolkien knew there were elements in The Hobbit that didn't line up with The Lord of the Rings, or were problematic in some way, and we can see him wrestling with the issues he thought needed fixing, looking at the all too short (in my opinion) 1960 Hobbit.

For some "in story" considerations see The History of The Hobbit's Timelines And Itinerary, where Tolkien is concerned with distances, dates, phases of the Moon, and even the size of Mirkwood. He includes a timetable from Rivendell to Lake Town as well.

And with a later revision, here's a chance to niggle with other details too: like adding dried blood on the famous swords so that Gandalf "couldn't" read the runes on them (couldn't, and didn't immediately read them, that is, and the "task" is still given to Elrond), or introducing place-names from The Lord of the Rings, and a detail like the name of Gandalf's horse. Not to mention a chance to smooth over tone, including removing narrator asides.


In 1954 Tolkien wrote that if The Hobbit had been more carefully written, and his world so much thought about 20 years ago, he should not have used the name William for a troll (noting that he'd at least begun The Hobbit as an oral tale for his children, of course). But as has been pointed out, Tolkien retained the name in 1960, and I'm guessing this is at least partly due to Appendix F (published in 1955) now being part of the scenario, wherein a Hobbit-name like "Tom" is not short for "Thomas" for instance, nor even "Samwise" a true name for "Sam" back in "Frodo's" day.

In shorter, now the names could be generally "explained" as being translations, even if not specifically explained. Aside: also in the 1960s there appears a troll what bakes bread for a Hobbit called Perry-the-Winkle. In a poem.



I personally don't have a problem with giants (along with giant Ents and Little People) in Tolkien's world, or bear-based skin changers, or certain Elves teasing Dwarves in Rivendell, or singing the way they are depicted in The Hobbit. I could go deeper as to why, but recently (elsewhere) Tar-Elenion made a suggestion with respect to the "singing Elves" scene, and I hope he doesn't mind me reposting it here:


Quote:
"At last one, a tall young fellow, came out from the trees and bowed to Gandalf and to Thorin. "Welcome to the valley!" he said."

This and the initial encounter with the Elves would have been great for a re-write or re-imagining. The tall young fellow could introduce himself Estel, and the Elves could all be Elf-children and his playmates, thus singing the silly songs, and teasing 'father Thorin' and the other Dwarves.
I like!

Last edited by Galin; 03-27-2024 at 11:00 AM.
Galin is offline   Reply With Quote
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:56 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.