Eorling Mead Hall Planning/Discussion Thread - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 04-23-2006, 03:35 PM

Well, here's a question. Celuien's character Garstan is merely on the way to the fair while Eodwine and Saeryn are already there. I suppose I could do another post yet before Garstan interrupts the (ahem) careful intensities between the two not-lovebirds.

Feanor of the Peredhil · 04-23-2006, 03:45 PM

That's good for me, since I'd planned on Degas interrupting them after one more post.

Folwren · 04-23-2006, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Folwren: in post # 262 you'll want to be picking either the West Emnet or East Emnet; I don't think Tolkien ever gave a clue as to which of the two was first.

Eh, very well. East it will be, then. I think that should be first, seeing as the sun rises first on it.

Anyway, you said 'Middle Emnet' so I figured something would want to come first or last.

I had another question - how long after the Great War is this? Have you any idea? If Eodwine fought in it...was he a young man back then? Or is it not as way 'back then' after all?

-- Folwren

littlemanpoet · 04-23-2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Folwren

Eh, very well. East it will be, then. I think that should be first, seeing as the sun rises first on it.

Anyway, you said 'Middle Emnet' so I figured something would want to come first or last.

I had another question - how long after the Great War is this? Have you any idea? If Eodwine fought in it...was he a young man back then? Or is it not as way 'back then' after all?

-- Folwren

Fourth Age Year 15. 16, actually, come to think of it, seeing as a new March 25 has just come and gone lately.....

Feanor of the Peredhil · 04-23-2006, 04:21 PM

Do you want me to wait for Garstan's arrival before I deal with Degas and the missing Lady Lin?

Celuien · 04-23-2006, 04:37 PM

Eek! I didn't know you were waiting for me to make it to the fair, so I went to play in my concert thingy today. Took up most of the day.

I'll catch up and write tonight.

littlemanpoet · 05-12-2006, 02:35 PM

Okay, Anguirel, now what? Great post, by the way.

I could have Eodwine hold court on that 20th Day, hoping against hope that Manawyth somehow shows up. You decide whether he does or not. Could make Eorling life interesting for Manawyth and other Dunlendings in town..... Hmm......

I'll post some time today for the new Day.

Anguirel · 05-12-2006, 02:44 PM

I was thinking Manawyth could while away some time in Robin Hoodery and woodsmanship, spot of Eadric the Cild, Hereward the Wake, you know the drill, till some soldiers recapture him and drag him back for trial-on the twentieth day. Would that work?

He's currently headed out of town in a big way...

littlemanpoet · 05-12-2006, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I was thinking Manawyth could while away some time in Robin Hoodery and woodsmanship, spot of Eadric the Cild, Hereward the Wake, you know the drill, till some soldiers recapture him and drag him back for trial-on the twentieth day. Would that work?

He's currently headed out of town in a big way...

Okay, that'll work. Where is the trial going to be, then? At Meduseld, or at the Eorling Mead Hall?

Folwren · 05-12-2006, 03:00 PM

The Eorling Mead Hall is hardly in any state to hold a trial at...at least it wasn't twenty days previously, and it's not like those twenty days have been easy or given a lot of time to fix it up.

I think I put Thornden's age at 25 on my character's description bio, but I'm not entirely positive. I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off now, so I dont' have time to go check.

Elempi, I'm thinking about introducing my sister ... Thornden's sister into the game sometime this day. I'll do it after the trial, probably. Will that be alright?

-- Folwren

Firefoot · 05-12-2006, 03:10 PM

Leof is 16.

littlemanpoet · 05-12-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Folwren

The Eorling Mead Hall is hardly in any state to hold a trial at...at least it wasn't twenty days previously, and it's not like those twenty days have been easy or given a lot of time to fix it up.

I'm leaving it up to Thornden to see that the builders do a good job. Eodwine will be having words with him if there is still no basic hall with a roof by the end of 20 days!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Folwren

Elempi, I'm thinking about introducing my sister ... Thornden's sister into the game sometime this day. I'll do it after the trial, probably. Will that be alright?

That'd be fine.

Ain't no need for a Gob and Twiddle with all these characters to keep things busy... think I'll hold onto them for some later day and time....

littlemanpoet · 05-19-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Perhaps it was common for ladies of this land to wear men's garb and serve in roles taken by commoner women at home, yet he did not see it as being so.

I could have sworn she put on a gown this new Day.

Feanor of the Peredhil · 05-19-2006, 11:19 PM

Continuity... who pays attention to that?

I'll go fix it.

Kath · 05-20-2006, 06:06 AM

Quote:

All retainers will be there with him, not least because they find out their fate after a month of service. That includes Thornden.

What about Kara, her too? Also what are we doing about Frodides? Originally she was supposed to be leaving but so many people make use of her now it might be worth keeping her on. But that would mean the Hall has two cooks, though that isn't a bad thing.

JennyHallu · 05-20-2006, 02:42 PM

Really it semed to me like Frodides has been retired for a while now...and I can't see Eodwine just kicking her out. And Kara and Frodides have been developing a mentor/mentee relationship, or so it's seemed to me.

Feanor of the Peredhil · 05-20-2006, 02:52 PM

Jenny, how do you want to work Lin and Farahil's meeting?

littlemanpoet · 06-22-2006, 04:37 PM

Let's set out the issue in terms of the facts. (uh-oh, LMP's in loyer mode, now we're reeeeelly in trouble)

1. Anglo-Saxon and therefore (we are implying) Rohirric codes are what we're dealing with.

2. Both farmers A and B are tenants, not owners.

3. Until a month ago, the land was leased of the King.

4. Now by order of the King it is leased of the Eorl of the Middle Emnet, all rights and responsibilities adhering thereto. (snicker)

5. Rights of ownership adhering to the Eorl include: (1) rent, paid quarterly, in fee or kind, depending on the agreement formerly made between king and tenant; (2) upon the death of the primary tenant, the land may be handed down to the tenant's heir, which is most likely in normal situations, or to another freeholder depending upon circumstances (criminal activity, the former family line running out or dwindling, etc.).

6. Rights of tenancy: (1) use of all crops harvested (after rent is paid); (2) tenancy for the life of the tenant.

There are probably more rights, but this will do for now.

Now for the case at hand:

1. Farmer B wrongfully sowed and seeks to harvest crops on land not in his tenancy.
2. Farmer A was negligent in not notifying the proper authority (a shire reave for example) of the wrongful activity.
3. Farmer A must pay rent to King or Eorl for the fallow land whether or not he uses it for crops; he is expected to use it for crops, but in the semi-feudal Anglo-Saxon society, is not required to. (In post William the Conqueror Britain, by contrast, tenants were more strictly regulated.)

In fact, Farmer A may be letting the field lie fallow so that it can be transformed into a horse pasture, something that is not at all uncommon in Rohan. I have half a mind to use this particular twist for the sake of our little disagreement.

As for "the best use of the land", that would be more of a concern in a more tightly regulated feudal society, which Rohan (as understood as a developed Anglo-Saxon culture) is not.

Farmer B should have gotten permission from our nameless Shire Reave, or else directly from the King, as there was no Eorl of the Middle Emnet when all of this happened.

Formy, the feudal structure you outline is actually more in keeping with post-Williamite Britain. In the pre-Williamite there would be a King, his Earls, freeholders, then peasants. Four levels, tops.

My next post is going to be an attempt at the exchange between Eodwine and the two farmers. I have a writers' group meeting starting in 1 hour, so I don't know how far I'll get.

littlemanpoet · 06-22-2006, 05:13 PM

By the way, Folwren, Eodwine's words need to be changed post #367 in one small regard: In place of “You should have come to me before you broke ground and planted crops. It might have saved trouble.” - please put this: "You should have gone to the King or his man before you broke ground and planted crops. It would have saved trouble." Also, please change this: "Later today I will have made up my mind." to "Later today I will have more questions." - Thanks!

****************
Eodwine and Saeryn took their seats again (it had been a most interesting discussion between the two of them regarding tenancy rights), and Thornden called the court to order with a thump on the floor of the staff Eodwine had procured for him recenlty. The two farmers stood before the Eorl.

The first freeholder, Edelfrid, who tenanted the disputed land, stood on Eodwine's and Saeryn's right; the second, Radweld, who had planted the crops, stood to their left.

"Edelfrid," Eodwine began, "did you pay tenancy to the King for the field while is lay fallow the second year?"

"That I did, lord."

"Did you know that Radweld was planting crops in your field?"

"I knew, lord."

"Why did you not speak of it to your shire reave or bring it to the king?"

"Lord, am I on trial, or this man's misdeed?"

"You are not on trial. But I need to know as much as I can before I make a ruling. Answer the question."

"Lord, we have been unfriends for many years, and I admit that I hoped to win at his cost."

"That is ill-thought by you, Edelfrid."

"Yes, lord, I am sorry."

"Your unfriendship should be redressed, but the matter of the crops must be ruled on first. Why did you leave the land fallow the extra year, Edelfrid?"

"I plan to buy horses, lord, and I need a field for pasturing."

"That field is not big enough for horse pasturage!" Radweld scowled.

"You, neighbor," Edelfrid sneered, "have no right telling me what my land is good for!"

Thornden raised the staff and brought it down hard three times. The three knocks on the floor got the two opponents' attention. "There will be order in my lord's court," Thornden said smoothly.

"Thank you, Thornden," Eodwine smiled. "Here is my thought on the matter. Radweld, you did wrongfully to plant on a field not in your tenancy. For that you must pay. If Edelfrid was preparing his land for pasturage, you have stolen not only the use of his land for a crop year, but you have stolen time Edelfrid needed to turn the land to pasturage, and if Edelfrid is to hold to his plans to buy horses, he will have to pasture them elsewhere, paying rent for the right."

"But-" Radweld interrupted.

"I am not finished, Radweld!"

The freeholder subsided.

"On the other hand, Edelfrid allowed Radweld to do all the work on the field, with the hopes of gaining at Radweld's cost. This is wrongful. There is no law against it, but I would not have such things be the way things are done in my Emnet. Therefore, I rule thusly. First, that Radweld must pay a fine to me of two tenths of the worth of the crop for his wrongful use of Edelfrid's land. Second, that Radweld pay to Edelfrid double the yearly rate for rental of pasturage for two grown horses. Third, that these fines covering Radweld's wrongdoing, he is ruled as tenant of Edelfrid for the planted field, and will pay to Edelfrid a normal tenant rate for one year's use of the field, and may keep all that is left, for the sake of the work he has put into the land."

Neither Edelfrid nor Radweld looked completely happy, nor crestfallen. To Eodwine's mind, that was as it should be.
*************
Well? What do y'all think?

Feanor of the Peredhil · 06-22-2006, 05:22 PM

I think that I'm ecstatic that Saeryn didn't actually have to say anything about either farmers or land rights.

Folwren · 06-22-2006, 05:49 PM

I will do so when I've more time. I'll also read your post later.

-- Folwren

Celuien · 06-22-2006, 06:47 PM

I like it, lmp. As fair as possible to both of them, I think.

Formendacil · 06-23-2006, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Formy, the feudal structure you outline is actually more in keeping with post-Williamite Britain. In the pre-Williamite there would be a King, his Earls, freeholders, then peasants. Four levels, tops.

Well, I've never claimed to be an Anglo-Saxon expert, so I'll take your word for it... though Saxon England was a feudal society. And they did have King, Earls, and Freeholders. They were simply a little less rigid about it...

Anyway, good to see the debate is getting back to the game, where it belongs... Rohirric law is more appropriate to Eodwine than Elempi.

Folwren · 06-23-2006, 07:19 AM

Elempi, corrections in my post are made.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you to change one thing in yours. I don't think that Thornden would have to shout his order. It's not very much like him to shout. You could put- "Quite!" Thornden commanded. Or something that would imply he said it in a louder than normal voice and possibly in a dominating sort of way (that is what you wanted to imply, right?).

The post looked good. Great job wading through all of the debate posted here and coming out with that.

-- Folwren

Thinlómien · 06-23-2006, 08:35 AM

...just to inform I managed to fumble again.

I was the last few weeks in Nogrod's place and started writing the post there. When I came back home yesterday, I forgot to take the half of the post with me. As I wouldn't like to rewrite it and Nogrod's now in our summer cottage, I must wait 'til Sunday that he sends it to me via e-mail and I still have to finish it, so it will be up on Monday probably. I hope that doesn't cause any trouble: I suppose we're still having the same day going on, right?

Thinlómien · 06-23-2006, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

. . .so it will be up on Monday probably. I hope that doesn't cause any trouble: I suppose we're still having the same day going on, right?

LMP, could you confirm this now that you're online?

littlemanpoet · 06-23-2006, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Folwren

Elempi, corrections in my post are made.

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you to change one thing in yours. I don't think that Thornden would have to shout his order. It's not very much like him to shout. You could put- "Quite!" Thornden commanded. Or something that would imply he said it in a louder than normal voice and possibly in a dominating sort of way (that is what you wanted to imply, right?).

The post looked good. Great job wading through all of the debate posted here and coming out with that.

-- Folwren

Post edited. Eodwine has provided Thornden with a "staff of office", which Thornden uses like a judge's hammer. Let me know if it's okay, Foley.

littlemanpoet · 06-29-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

One rule: There are to be no 'saves'.

Just by way of reminder.

I forgot about the rule myself and did one; our kindly Rohan Moderator Piosenniel informed me that as Moderator of this thread, I have a right to place SAVES for story flow. But I'll do it only very sparingly if at all because Pio only needs a request to place a post within a previous post.

If we're desperate to get a bit of writing to fit in a certain spot in the story flow, we ask Pio to do it for us rather than clutter up the thread with SAVES .... which sometimes stay put and are forgotten about, which is actually sort of deplorable, don't you think?

Back to writing!

Nogrod · 06-29-2006, 04:08 PM

LMP

Sorry to have caused the fuzz by imitating your example yesterday...

I'll have our post up in an hour or so.

You should probably answer to it in a way that you can continue your other tasks for the Night. But I will be quite readily available, so that if you want a short answer, I'll probably be able to give it very soon (a short one, surely - this upcoming one seems to be getting a long one once again), meaning absolutely less than 24 hours from your post.

And we could always use Pio here...

Nice to be really in this game at last!

littlemanpoet · 06-29-2006, 04:11 PM

Okay, Noggie.

We could always build a post via PM. Seems to be a catching trend....

Feanor of the Peredhil · 06-29-2006, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Seems to be a catching trend....

Yeah, speaking of that... go check yours!

Nogrod · 06-29-2006, 05:38 PM

Okay, post in.

lmp, check the palate - have I described a believable late-evening "snack" for the Eorl? Are you (Eodwine and Saeryn) acting believably?

And sorry for the flooding, but really there were so many things to say. The meaning was not that our characters just talk without letting you hosts / masters any space to answer, but as I knew that we should have to deal with this with just a couple of posts, I tried to fill all relevant information in I managed.

And yes. So bad Lommy is without a net access for a while. I have tried to "drag" Modtryth with - and have asked for her blessing with a mobile phone with the way I have portraid her and for her charactert's actions. Happily we had some discussions about our characters and their relations before, so this should be okay by Lommy also in the end (hadn't time to check the latest things I added / rewrit).

I would like us to make one more post on this Day. SOmething how Eodwine thinks of the stuff and maybe a reaction. But surely you can just answer and give us a leave. Our characters might then speculate about your answer (and find Cnebba from somewhere...

)

PM'ing is allright by me as I can manage my scheduals quite freely. Just give me some times when we could do it and I'll tell you when I have to sleep...

Feanor of the Peredhil · 06-30-2006, 11:37 AM

Degas's response is written and ready to be posted. As soon as it becomes "tomorrow," I'll see if I can stop grinning long enough to put it up.

littlemanpoet · 07-21-2006, 03:30 AM

Sorry, I've been away more than I intended to be...

I've posted up the conclusion to the meeting on the kitchen, and given Marenil his entrance regarding the list.

If you have anything you'd like me to edit in my last post, please let me know and I'll change it.

Now I'll read Jenny's most recent post on this thread.

JennyHallu · 07-21-2006, 05:47 AM

Could you change your post so that Marenil isn't carrying a list, lmp? With paper such a precious commodity, I don't think he would have written it down, rather than just prepare to give his plans and reasoning orally. He's not as anal as I am, anyway.

Didn't realize quite how long that was. heh.

littlemanpoet · 08-03-2006, 09:48 AM

Lovely post, Fea. It looks like you have a time problem; the last few lines seem to indicate the time as around noon, whereas the previous conversation is in the middle of the night.....

EDIT: my mistake; looks like a flashback.... I think.

Folwren · 08-03-2006, 11:21 AM

That's so funny! I did the same thing, Elempi. It totally threw me off until I went back and read the first two paragraphs, which for some reason I had skipped without notice, and then it was quite clear.

It was an excellent post, Fea.

-- Folwren

Feanor of the Peredhil · 08-03-2006, 12:33 PM

Lemme take a look and see what I can do to clarify.

Taralphiel · 08-05-2006, 11:25 PM

Hullo all

Foley and I have been exchanging PM's planning out Lys' full recovery. We have a joint post for his first 'day out', but it seems he needs a bit more work pre time jump for it to be a smooth transition.

LMP & Pio: Would it be possible to have a small post slotted in earlier, in order to have that consistency? Foley and I have looked through and picked a spot that would be best. The post is below.

We were thinking between post numbers 408 and 409. Or rather, at the end of 408? It's early enough, and it doesn't break conversation between any two characters. Does this work?

If anyone at all has a problem with this, please give suggestions for where it could be better placed. I don't want to cause problems for anyone's stories.

Thanks for your help.

- Tara

***

POST PLACED (#408) --PIO

Lys looked up worriedly. The morning had wrung out sunshine through the cold for some hours, and Lys had woken startled. He had expected to be woken the night before! Had Thornden forgotten to collect him?

Lys tried to sit up, holding at his waist gingerly. He looked to the corner of the room, and saw Thornden slumped in the chair by the door. He had likely snuck in later that night, and Lys did not wish to wake him. He sat and watched him carefully, smiling at his steady breathing and calm expression. Lys saw him most often with creases of worry lining his brow, and Lys felt guilt for being the cause of those lines.

Thornden stirred and lifted his head. His eyes opened and his chest expanded as he drew a deep breath of air.

“Oh, Lys! You are awake,” he said, noticing the boy at once.

“Yes,” Lys said softly. “Thornden, why didn’t you wake me? We did not go to eat dinner in the Hall, like you promised.”

Thornden had forgotten, until that morning when he woke up, and he felt sorry for it. Lys saw it immediately as the familiar wrinkles of worry returned. Lys quickly muttered a few apologies, until Thornden got up and walked to his bedside. He gently laid his hand on the boy’s shoulder.

“Now, now, Lys! Do not be sorry. I’m the one who should ask pardon. The court of yesterday turned bitter-sweet. Our Lady Linduial is leaving this morning for home, and there were some changes,” he paused slightly. “I am not to be appointed to Lord Eodwine’s side in the rank you supposed. I did not wish to disappoint you...”

Lys shook his head thoroughly at Thornden’s words. “I could not be! You have taken care of me all this time. I am no blood to you, nor have I any thing or promise to serve you benefit for being so kind. You have given freely, and nothing you could do would make me feel disappointment. You are all at the once my family, and, mayhap, my Father…”

Lys stopped after this, and lowered his head. In all of the healing his body was yet to endure, Lys knew he could feel safe in the care of Thornden. And with no family in his free memory, Thornden was all he had.

littlemanpoet · 08-06-2006, 02:23 PM

That looks fine to me, Tara & Foley.

Pio, please place the narrative text in Tara's post (just above this one) AS the end of post #408. Thanks!

POST PLACED FOR TARA ~*~ PIO

04-23-2006, 03:45 PM	#2
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	That's good for me, since I'd planned on Degas interrupting them after one more post. __________________ peace

04-23-2006, 04:21 PM	#5
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Do you want me to wait for Garstan's arrival before I deal with Degas and the missing Lady Lin? __________________ peace

04-23-2006, 04:37 PM	#6
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	Eek! I didn't know you were waiting for me to make it to the fair, so I went to play in my concert thingy today. Took up most of the day. I'll catch up and write tonight. __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

05-12-2006, 02:44 PM	#8
Anguirel Byronic Brand Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: The 1590s Posts: 2,778	I was thinking Manawyth could while away some time in Robin Hoodery and woodsmanship, spot of Eadric the Cild, Hereward the Wake, you know the drill, till some soldiers recapture him and drag him back for trial-on the twentieth day. Would that work? He's currently headed out of town in a big way... __________________ Among the friendly dead, being bad at games did not seem to matter -Il Lupo Fenriso

05-12-2006, 03:00 PM	#10
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	The Eorling Mead Hall is hardly in any state to hold a trial at...at least it wasn't twenty days previously, and it's not like those twenty days have been easy or given a lot of time to fix it up. I think I put Thornden's age at 25 on my character's description bio, but I'm not entirely positive. I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off now, so I dont' have time to go check. Elempi, I'm thinking about introducing my sister ... Thornden's sister into the game sometime this day. I'll do it after the trial, probably. Will that be alright? -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

04-23-2006, 03:35 PM	#1
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Well, here's a question. Celuien's character Garstan is merely on the way to the fair while Eodwine and Saeryn are already there. I suppose I could do another post yet before Garstan interrupts the (ahem) careful intensities between the two not-lovebirds.

05-12-2006, 02:35 PM	#7
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Okay, Anguirel, now what? Great post, by the way. I could have Eodwine hold court on that 20th Day, hoping against hope that Manawyth somehow shows up. You decide whether he does or not. Could make Eorling life interesting for Manawyth and other Dunlendings in town..... Hmm...... I'll post some time today for the new Day.

05-12-2006, 03:10 PM	#11
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	Leof is 16.

05-19-2006, 11:19 PM	#14
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Continuity... who pays attention to that? I'll go fix it. __________________ peace

05-20-2006, 02:42 PM	#16
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Really it semed to me like Frodides has been retired for a while now...and I can't see Eodwine just kicking her out. And Kara and Frodides have been developing a mentor/mentee relationship, or so it's seemed to me. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

05-20-2006, 02:52 PM	#17
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Jenny, how do you want to work Lin and Farahil's meeting? __________________ peace

06-22-2006, 04:37 PM	#18
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Let's set out the issue in terms of the facts. (uh-oh, LMP's in loyer mode, now we're reeeeelly in trouble) 1. Anglo-Saxon and therefore (we are implying) Rohirric codes are what we're dealing with. 2. Both farmers A and B are tenants, not owners. 3. Until a month ago, the land was leased of the King. 4. Now by order of the King it is leased of the Eorl of the Middle Emnet, all rights and responsibilities adhering thereto. (snicker) 5. Rights of ownership adhering to the Eorl include: (1) rent, paid quarterly, in fee or kind, depending on the agreement formerly made between king and tenant; (2) upon the death of the primary tenant, the land may be handed down to the tenant's heir, which is most likely in normal situations, or to another freeholder depending upon circumstances (criminal activity, the former family line running out or dwindling, etc.). 6. Rights of tenancy: (1) use of all crops harvested (after rent is paid); (2) tenancy for the life of the tenant. There are probably more rights, but this will do for now. Now for the case at hand: 1. Farmer B wrongfully sowed and seeks to harvest crops on land not in his tenancy. 2. Farmer A was negligent in not notifying the proper authority (a shire reave for example) of the wrongful activity. 3. Farmer A must pay rent to King or Eorl for the fallow land whether or not he uses it for crops; he is expected to use it for crops, but in the semi-feudal Anglo-Saxon society, is not required to. (In post William the Conqueror Britain, by contrast, tenants were more strictly regulated.) In fact, Farmer A may be letting the field lie fallow so that it can be transformed into a horse pasture, something that is not at all uncommon in Rohan. I have half a mind to use this particular twist for the sake of our little disagreement. As for "the best use of the land", that would be more of a concern in a more tightly regulated feudal society, which Rohan (as understood as a developed Anglo-Saxon culture) is not. Farmer B should have gotten permission from our nameless Shire Reave, or else directly from the King, as there was no Eorl of the Middle Emnet when all of this happened. Formy, the feudal structure you outline is actually more in keeping with post-Williamite Britain. In the pre-Williamite there would be a King, his Earls, freeholders, then peasants. Four levels, tops. My next post is going to be an attempt at the exchange between Eodwine and the two farmers. I have a writers' group meeting starting in 1 hour, so I don't know how far I'll get.

06-22-2006, 05:13 PM	#19
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	By the way, Folwren, Eodwine's words need to be changed post #367 in one small regard: In place of “You should have come to me before you broke ground and planted crops. It might have saved trouble.” - please put this: "You should have gone to the King or his man before you broke ground and planted crops. It would have saved trouble." Also, please change this: "Later today I will have made up my mind." to "Later today I will have more questions." - Thanks! ************** Eodwine and Saeryn took their seats again (it had been a most interesting discussion between the two of them regarding tenancy rights), and Thornden called the court to order with a thump on the floor of the staff Eodwine had procured for him recenlty. The two farmers stood before the Eorl. The first freeholder, Edelfrid, who tenanted the disputed land, stood on Eodwine's and Saeryn's right; the second, Radweld, who had planted the crops, stood to their left. "Edelfrid," Eodwine began, "did you pay tenancy to the King for the field while is lay fallow the second year?" "That I did, lord." "Did you know that Radweld was planting crops in your field?" "I knew, lord." "Why did you not speak of it to your shire reave or bring it to the king?" "Lord, am I on trial, or this man's misdeed?" "You are not on trial. But I need to know as much as I can before I make a ruling. Answer the question." "Lord, we have been unfriends for many years, and I admit that I hoped to win at his cost." "That is ill-thought by you, Edelfrid." "Yes, lord, I am sorry." "Your unfriendship should be redressed, but the matter of the crops must be ruled on first. Why did you leave the land fallow the extra year, Edelfrid?" "I plan to buy horses, lord, and I need a field for pasturing." "That field is not big enough for horse pasturage!" Radweld scowled. "You, neighbor," Edelfrid sneered, "have no right telling me what my land is good for!" Thornden raised the staff and brought it down hard three times. The three knocks on the floor got the two opponents' attention. "There will be order in my lord's court," Thornden said smoothly. "Thank you, Thornden," Eodwine smiled. "Here is my thought on the matter. Radweld, you did wrongfully to plant on a field not in your tenancy. For that you must pay. If Edelfrid was preparing his land for pasturage, you have stolen not only the use of his land for a crop year, but you have stolen time Edelfrid needed to turn the land to pasturage, and if Edelfrid is to hold to his plans to buy horses, he will have to pasture them elsewhere, paying rent for the right." "But-" Radweld interrupted. "I am not finished, Radweld!" The freeholder subsided. "On the other hand, Edelfrid allowed Radweld to do all the work on the field, with the hopes of gaining at Radweld's cost. This is wrongful. There is no law against it, but I would not have such things be the way things are done in my Emnet. Therefore, I rule thusly. First, that Radweld must pay a fine to me of two tenths of the worth of the crop for his wrongful use of Edelfrid's land. Second, that Radweld pay to Edelfrid double the yearly rate for rental of pasturage for two grown horses. Third, that these fines covering Radweld's wrongdoing, he is ruled as tenant of Edelfrid for the planted field, and will pay to Edelfrid a normal tenant rate for one year's use of the field, and may keep all that is left, for the sake of the work he has put into the land." Neither Edelfrid nor Radweld looked completely happy, nor crestfallen. To Eodwine's mind, that was as it should be. *********** Well? What do y'all think? Last edited by littlemanpoet; 06-23-2006 at 09:05 AM.

06-22-2006, 05:22 PM	#20
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	I think that I'm ecstatic that Saeryn didn't actually have to say anything about either farmers or land rights. __________________ peace

06-22-2006, 05:49 PM	#21
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	I will do so when I've more time. I'll also read your post later. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

06-22-2006, 06:47 PM	#22
Celuien Riveting Ribbiter Join Date: May 2005 Location: Assigned to Mordor Posts: 1,767	I like it, lmp. As fair as possible to both of them, I think. __________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff.

06-23-2006, 07:19 AM	#24
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	Elempi, corrections in my post are made. Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you to change one thing in yours. I don't think that Thornden would have to shout his order. It's not very much like him to shout. You could put- "Quite!" Thornden commanded. Or something that would imply he said it in a louder than normal voice and possibly in a dominating sort of way (that is what you wanted to imply, right?). The post looked good. Great job wading through all of the debate posted here and coming out with that. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

06-23-2006, 08:35 AM	#25
Thinlómien Shady She-Penguin Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: In a far land beyond the Sea Posts: 8,093	Popping in again... ...just to inform I managed to fumble again. I was the last few weeks in Nogrod's place and started writing the post there. When I came back home yesterday, I forgot to take the half of the post with me. As I wouldn't like to rewrite it and Nogrod's now in our summer cottage, I must wait 'til Sunday that he sends it to me via e-mail and I still have to finish it, so it will be up on Monday probably. I hope that doesn't cause any trouble: I suppose we're still having the same day going on, right? __________________ Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris

06-29-2006, 04:08 PM	#29
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	LMP Sorry to have caused the fuzz by imitating your example yesterday... I'll have our post up in an hour or so. You should probably answer to it in a way that you can continue your other tasks for the Night. But I will be quite readily available, so that if you want a short answer, I'll probably be able to give it very soon (a short one, surely - this upcoming one seems to be getting a long one once again), meaning absolutely less than 24 hours from your post. And we could always use Pio here... Nice to be really in this game at last! __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

06-29-2006, 04:11 PM	#30
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Okay, Noggie. We could always build a post via PM. Seems to be a catching trend....

06-29-2006, 05:38 PM	#32
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	Okay, post in. lmp, check the palate - have I described a believable late-evening "snack" for the Eorl? Are you (Eodwine and Saeryn) acting believably? And sorry for the flooding, but really there were so many things to say. The meaning was not that our characters just talk without letting you hosts / masters any space to answer, but as I knew that we should have to deal with this with just a couple of posts, I tried to fill all relevant information in I managed. And yes. So bad Lommy is without a net access for a while. I have tried to "drag" Modtryth with - and have asked for her blessing with a mobile phone with the way I have portraid her and for her charactert's actions. Happily we had some discussions about our characters and their relations before, so this should be okay by Lommy also in the end (hadn't time to check the latest things I added / rewrit). I would like us to make one more post on this Day. SOmething how Eodwine thinks of the stuff and maybe a reaction. But surely you can just answer and give us a leave. Our characters might then speculate about your answer (and find Cnebba from somewhere... ) PM'ing is allright by me as I can manage my scheduals quite freely. Just give me some times when we could do it and I'll tell you when I have to sleep... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

06-30-2006, 11:37 AM	#33
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Consolidating Degas's response is written and ready to be posted. As soon as it becomes "tomorrow," I'll see if I can stop grinning long enough to put it up. __________________ peace

07-21-2006, 03:30 AM	#34
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Sorry, I've been away more than I intended to be... I've posted up the conclusion to the meeting on the kitchen, and given Marenil his entrance regarding the list. If you have anything you'd like me to edit in my last post, please let me know and I'll change it. Now I'll read Jenny's most recent post on this thread.

07-21-2006, 05:47 AM	#35
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	Could you change your post so that Marenil isn't carrying a list, lmp? With paper such a precious commodity, I don't think he would have written it down, rather than just prepare to give his plans and reasoning orally. He's not as anal as I am, anyway. Didn't realize quite how long that was. heh. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

08-03-2006, 09:48 AM	#36
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Lovely post, Fea. It looks like you have a time problem; the last few lines seem to indicate the time as around noon, whereas the previous conversation is in the middle of the night..... EDIT: my mistake; looks like a flashback.... I think. Last edited by littlemanpoet; 08-03-2006 at 10:16 AM.

08-03-2006, 11:21 AM	#37
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	That's so funny! I did the same thing, Elempi. It totally threw me off until I went back and read the first two paragraphs, which for some reason I had skipped without notice, and then it was quite clear. It was an excellent post, Fea. -- Folwren __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

08-03-2006, 12:33 PM	#38
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	Lemme take a look and see what I can do to clarify. __________________ peace

08-05-2006, 11:25 PM	#39
Taralphiel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Swan Wood Posts: 649	Hullo all Foley and I have been exchanging PM's planning out Lys' full recovery. We have a joint post for his first 'day out', but it seems he needs a bit more work pre time jump for it to be a smooth transition. LMP & Pio: Would it be possible to have a small post slotted in earlier, in order to have that consistency? Foley and I have looked through and picked a spot that would be best. The post is below. We were thinking between post numbers 408 and 409. Or rather, at the end of 408? It's early enough, and it doesn't break conversation between any two characters. Does this work? If anyone at all has a problem with this, please give suggestions for where it could be better placed. I don't want to cause problems for anyone's stories. Thanks for your help. - Tara * POST PLACED (#408) --PIO** Lys looked up worriedly. The morning had wrung out sunshine through the cold for some hours, and Lys had woken startled. He had expected to be woken the night before! Had Thornden forgotten to collect him? Lys tried to sit up, holding at his waist gingerly. He looked to the corner of the room, and saw Thornden slumped in the chair by the door. He had likely snuck in later that night, and Lys did not wish to wake him. He sat and watched him carefully, smiling at his steady breathing and calm expression. Lys saw him most often with creases of worry lining his brow, and Lys felt guilt for being the cause of those lines. Thornden stirred and lifted his head. His eyes opened and his chest expanded as he drew a deep breath of air. “Oh, Lys! You are awake,” he said, noticing the boy at once. “Yes,” Lys said softly. “Thornden, why didn’t you wake me? We did not go to eat dinner in the Hall, like you promised.” Thornden had forgotten, until that morning when he woke up, and he felt sorry for it. Lys saw it immediately as the familiar wrinkles of worry returned. Lys quickly muttered a few apologies, until Thornden got up and walked to his bedside. He gently laid his hand on the boy’s shoulder. “Now, now, Lys! Do not be sorry. I’m the one who should ask pardon. The court of yesterday turned bitter-sweet. Our Lady Linduial is leaving this morning for home, and there were some changes,” he paused slightly. “I am not to be appointed to Lord Eodwine’s side in the rank you supposed. I did not wish to disappoint you...” Lys shook his head thoroughly at Thornden’s words. “I could not be! You have taken care of me all this time. I am no blood to you, nor have I any thing or promise to serve you benefit for being so kind. You have given freely, and nothing you could do would make me feel disappointment. You are all at the once my family, and, mayhap, my Father…” Lys stopped after this, and lowered his head. In all of the healing his body was yet to endure, Lys knew he could feel safe in the care of Thornden. And with no family in his free memory, Thornden was all he had. Last edited by piosenniel; 08-06-2006 at 02:59 PM.

08-06-2006, 02:23 PM	#40
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	That looks fine to me, Tara & Foley. Pio, please place the narrative text in Tara's post (just above this one) AS the end of post #408. Thanks! *POST PLACED FOR TARA ~~ PIO** Last edited by piosenniel; 08-06-2006 at 09:00 PM.