The Lingering Darkness Planning/Discussion Thread - Page 8 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Imladris · 10-08-2003, 09:32 AM

Maybe we should have Vanwe and Barrold already gone somehow, if that would work. Because right now, it just seems to me that if the Rangers don't find that cellar and are so easily fooled by that Barrold, that would just make them all dunces. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this just seems so unranger-like to me. Cellars usually have dirt floors, I'm sure there would be some kind of track (but I could be wrong, I'm not a ranger...just some poor girl from Mundania).

Or maybe Elora can somehow have Vanwe creep out and run right into Barrold again, or maybe even her mother, to create a little suspense in the story. Or have her slip out, have Barrold show up at the hourse, find her gone and then he has to deal with the rangers, and maybe the other bad guy (Everdawn's character) can run into Vanwe. This might create a little suspense for the reader as well (What will happen to Vanwe?).

These are all just my thoughts on the matter and I don't know if they are good or not.

Edit: I forgot that Vanwe is tied up, but I'm sure that a pice of broken pottery could cut the ropes, or even her little carving knife if she still has it.

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Imladris ]

Hilde Bracegirdle · 10-08-2003, 11:46 AM

If Vanwe were able to get away and Avanill catch her (in her current state) it would be a excellent opportunity for Avanill to get into the thick of things!. It does seem that she is in no condition to escape at the moment though.

Nerindel & Ealasaide – A couple of questions…how would the rangers recognize Kaldir’s trail if they saw it unless they caught a glimpse of him as well? Should that be part of the plan? Otherwise they would have to go back and pick it up from where he was spotted. And would Benia & Gilly be with him? Also am I correct in that you are proposing that Dulrain, Maethor & Rauthain go after Naiore, and will or will not Léspheria & Amandur bump into Avanill & Barrold. en route to Tallas.

I really don’t think it is plausible to have our rangers tracking in the woods at night. They are good but not super human! It be dark out dare! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

Imladris · 10-08-2003, 12:11 PM

I totally agree with you Hilde, about the rangers tracking in the dark...even Aragorn didn't want to do that. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

About Vanwe...Elora, I know this is your character, but may I offer a suggestion? It appears that she is gaining strength. When people are desperately determined to do something, it seems as if they find like an inner strength or something (that sounds really hokey-pokey there, but I'm thinking right now of the chase of Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli). That's my suggestion.

Ealasaide · 10-08-2003, 01:41 PM

I find that I have to agree with Hilde & Imladris that we can't have the Rangers looking like idiots by not finding the basement or by letting themselves be fooled so easily by the likes of Barrold Ferney. Seems to me that the more Ferney tried to steer them away from an area, the more they would be inclined to search it!

On that note, I think it would probably be best for Vanwe to be out of the house by the time the Rangers search it.

As for the Rangers finding Kaldir's trail, I have no objection to their seeing him. By then he would probably have Gilly & Benia with him, so the sighting would have to be from a distance. Otherwise, what's to stop them from riding up & interfering? Or, maybe something else would be going on that would keep them from interfering with him at the time of the sighting. Either way, they would already know he was also on Naiore's trail.

Elora · 10-08-2003, 03:04 PM

All valid points.

Of course, to get Vanwe out of the house, Barrold needs to get there and spirit her away before Rangers show up. As I understand it, Rangers already observe the house, so therefore there'll need to be some further alterations.

Here is my own question. If Rangers don't like to track in the dark, why would they locate a concealed cellar in the dark? Seems to plausible that they might not. Barrold has used this cellar in past for his activities. It is concealed, but not indetectible in daylight.

Certainly, Vanwe is in no condition to escape. She's bound hand and foot and exceptionally weak. She won't be going very far under her own management.

Barrold will certainly encounter Avanill in the morning. As that character is esconced at the inn right now, that seems to me to be the best course to take to bring that character into the thick of things.

Hilde, concerning Vanwe, I take a somewhat different view. I can appreciate your concern and have no desire to engage in cliches with my own characters. We're of one mind there.

Vanwe is not getting stronger. Rather, her character is becoming more defined. Up to now, she's been somewhat indistinct. What can she do? Why is Naiore so concerned about her abilities?

My intentions for Vanwe is to make her similiar in some respects to her mother and father, but make different choices. Vanwe's uncanny healing ability is rooted in the same talents as her mother's sensativities. Naiore choses to use her in violent and destructive ways, Vanwe does not.

For Vanwe to emerge as something more than a victim character, a cliche I wish to avoid, her abilities do have to start to come to the fore. So, Vanwe's terrified reach, crude as it was, is the beginning. That served three purposes. First, it helped me reveal something more about Vanwe. Secondly, it gave Lespheria something to sense apart from Naiore and confirm Vanwe's survival thus far. Third, it was impetus for the Rangers to do more than sit at the inn and discuss things. I doubt those characters would sit whilst the hunt was afoot, be it night or dark.

So, rest assured, Vanwe is not developing into some superhero, multipowered character. But neither shall she be a passive victim. Vanwe's tendancy to underestimate herself is her main downfall. The sooner she uncovers her resources and begins to use them, the sooner shall she stand on her own feet.

One final note, I had Vanwe's surge crude and grasping as Vanwe has had no training for her sensativities. Without so much as an Elven role model and the active and violent repression of her abilities by the villagers, her skill and contol is rough and she feels reluctant to ever use her sensativities. It is a thing of shame, corruption and fear for her, given her childhood.

That sort of baggage is not easily overthrown on account of one, albiet very traumatic, experience. So therein is a natural break to any tendancy for Vanwe to morph into something supernatural.

Imladris · 10-08-2003, 04:24 PM

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Here is my own question. If Rangers don't like to track in the dark, why would they locate a concealed cellar in the dark? Seems to plausible that they might not. Barrold has used this cellar in past for his activities. It is concealed, but not indetectible in daylight.

My understanding is that cellars are located outside a house, in the ground, and are accessed by a trap door. Now, rangers aren't stupid and they would assuredly search the house and grounds thoroughly before they left. Another thing: you weren't exactly clear where the cellar was located. Surely one of them would notice a different sound or feel in the wood (or ground, wherever the cellar is located)-- more of a hollow sound. That's why in World War II, the people who hid the Jews would line the secret rooms with bricks so that the Nazi's couldn't tell between the real wall and the fake wall.

I don't know how to explain myself without making an a$$ out of myself, but I am going to do it any ways. What's up with Vanwe? How is she turning into this superhero? She's not even a hero yet; she is too bloody weak and pathetic. To me, she's very weak --she's almost stagnant. She's predictable. Have I missed something here? I am going to list everything that you've said that seems to have come out of the blue:
1. "I can appreciate your concern and have no desire to engage in cliches with my own characters. We're of one mind there."
Was this discussed in a PM or something?
2. "For Vanwe to emerge as something more than a victim character, a cliche I wish to avoid, her abilities do have to start to come to the fore."
Vanwe is a victim character right now. She's been picked on by the entire world, according to her history. She can't do anything. That can make a really good character, but it's a little much right now. In this RPG, she hasn't used her abilities to sense things. Why is she so frightened in the cellar? You are having an effect without having a cause. Is it because her mother betrayed her?
3. "So, Vanwe's terrified reach, crude as it was, is the beginning."
What is this "terrified reach" you are talking about? Was it when she felt that terror well up inside her and she would have screamed if she had had the strength? That's hardly a gift. She didn't read anybody. Also, the Rangers were not sitting and doing nothing. From what I have read, Naiore is not someone to go rushing after rashly. She is a force that needs to be reckoned with. It would be foolhardy to go after Naiore so impetuously. Besides, it just seemed like they were taking a long time because it took a few days to post what really happened in just a few minutes. I don't think it would have been very smart to meet and then just to go after Naiore without comparing notes and making a logical decision based on those notes. Even Aragorn was leery to track the hobbits in the dark, and they were valued friends.
4. "So, rest assured, Vanwe is not developing into some superhero, multipowered character. But neither shall she be a passive victim. Vanwe's tendancy to underestimate herself is her main downfall. The sooner she uncovers her resources and begins to use them, the sooner shall she stand on her own feet."
Just because Vanwe underestimates herself doesn't mean she should just sit there, tied, without trying to do something to free herself. Heck, even Pippin tried to help by throwing away his Lorien brooch. Why isn't she doing anything? Why isn't she trying to find her mother and figure out what's going on?

Vanwe is stagnant.

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What can she do? Why is Naiore so concerned about her abilities?

That's why she needs to escape. She's been searching for Mom and Dad for years, through many dangers. Why is she giving up now? What happened to her carving knife? Why can't she cut her bonds with that? She doesn't have to cut the bonds that bind her hands. All she needs to do is cut her feet and crawl away. And now she doesn't even find the impetus to try and escape to find her mother?

Right now, in my opinion, this story lacks life. There is nothing to spice it up. We need suspense. Every story needs suspense. Right now, a reader can predict what's going to happen. But if Vanwe escapes for reasons within her character, the reader will be left in suspense. Will she find her way to Lespheria and tell them about Naiore, or will the love of her mother lead the rangers or Lespheria away? Will she run into her mother? And if Avanill captures her, will Avanill hang onto her or give her back to Ferny or Naiore? Right now Avanill is another stagnant character, through no fault of Everdawn. If Avanill captures Vanwe, there could be an interesting, maybe even humorous, flare of tempers between Ferny (who would of course pursue Vanwe in fear of Naiore) about who gets to keep Naiore's daughter. But this is up to Elora what to do.

This is just my humble opinion. A classic theme in literature is the meeting/separation theme to create suspense. If any of you have watched the TV show "24," you'll know what I mean.

Right now Vanwe is doing the opposite of what she's been doing for her entire life. All she's been concerned about is finding her parents. Now her mother has drugged her and abandoned her in the hands of a swine like Ferney. Why? Naiore's actions have not been explained, no motive has been identified. Why is she so frightened of her daughter? It seems that Vanwe is giving up too easily from what I've learned of her character.

I'm sorry if I have offended you, Elora and the others, but I think this needed to be said.

Ealasaide · 10-08-2003, 05:12 PM

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As I understand it, Rangers already observe the house, so therefore there'll need to be some further alterations.

Elora - I believe Nerindel has written an edit to her last posts so that the house is NOT currently under observation.

Imladris - Obviously, you have some issues with how the storyline is progressing. If you could state more specifically (to me in a PM, if you like) what is troubling you, perhaps we can sort it out. Part of the problem here is that you were not in on Elora's character development of Vanwe & Naiore that took place in the Green Dragon before we moved over to the current RPG format. Perhaps if you gave Elora a little more time to develop her characters, their roles & motivations would become more clear to you.

In the meantime, let's try to keep things on a friendly & positive note.

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaide ]

Elora · 10-08-2003, 05:49 PM

No offense and your comments are welcome. Hopfully my reply will be taken in the same manner.

The cellar is concealed by brush. A thought that occurred to me is why Rangers would take the liberty of searching a private residence without the owner present in the dark with Naiore conceivably lurking nearby.

Such riffling of private property I would think sit ill with the Rangers.

As for Vanwe, this seems very much a matter of opinion and perspective. Let me give you mine, as she is my creature.

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What's up with Vanwe? How is she turning into this superhero? She's not even a hero yet; she is too bloody weak and pathetic. To me, she's very weak --she's almost stagnant. She's predictable. Have I missed something here?

Perhaps so, Imladris. Hilde raised the concern about Vanwe suddenly becoming powerful. Hence my comments on this.

On a broader scale, Vanwe is far from weak. She sees herself as small, and yet her achievments thus far in her history suggests otherwise. A weak and pathetic character would never have dared defy the Haradrim and flee. Certainly the long and harsh road would have been the end of her. Vanwe has been able to get herself through many challenging situations.

She is weak now on account of what she was given by her mother. I could not magic away the effects of such a thing and keep the plot plausible.

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1. "I can appreciate your concern and have no desire to engage in cliches with my own characters. We're of one mind there."
Was this discussed in a PM or something?

No PMs have passed on this. It's merely my reply to what Hilde posted earlier today (board time) concerning Vanwe's character development through the course of the RP thus far.

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Vanwe is a victim character right now. She's been picked on by the entire world, according to her history. She can't do anything. That can make a really good character, but it's a little much right now. In this RPG, she hasn't used her abilities to sense things. Why is she so frightened in the cellar? You are having an effect without having a cause. Is it because her mother betrayed her?

I really have to disagree with you on that one. Vanwe's character profile clearly sets out her abilities and as you can see she is far from completely devoid of skills. She can do something. In addition to her adept surivival skills, Vanwe's sensativities and healing abilities give her talent. She's also artistically minded.

Forgive me if the RP has not enabled me to fully reveal Vanwe's entire personality, but it is only in it's early stages. Vanwe has had to be grabbed for this RP to even begin. That means she had to have vulnerabilities that fit that scenario. It doesn't mean anything else.

By the way, the whole world didn't pick on Vanwe. She's suspicious of the world as she's an isolated figure in it, divorced from her culture, her kindred and any community. However, as evinced by her involvement in the Green Dragon, not everyone picks on her.

She found the beginings of friends and home there, and her perspective on the world was slowly changing. Naiore's intervention via this RP has taken her away from those bonds. I have said before now that I plan on Vanwe forging them again in this RP. She has a connection with Lespheria, and had a connection with Hanasian. She will forge new connections.

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What is this "terrified reach" you are talking about? Was it when she felt that terror well up inside her and she would have screamed if she had had the strength? That's hardly a gift. She didn't read anybody.

Actually, Vanwe did reach with her emotions. Given her sensativities, she projected this. Lespheria sensed her. That has all been recorded in RP. Were Vanwe better skilled in her abilities, perhaps she could have been both more coherent and better targeted than simply projecting wildly outwards.

Neither Vanwe nor Naiore read people.... both sense aspects about people. Naiore senses emotions with startling insight (combination of practised observation and her innate ability as discussed in her character profile). Vanwe has inherited this also, but it is more about sensing injury and illness and putting that right - hence healing.

Lespheria is also has a version of this sensativity. She sensed Vanwe, being familiar with her already to a point, but for Lespheria to do that, Vanwe had to be conscious.

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Also, the Rangers were not sitting and doing nothing. From what I have read, Naiore is not someone to go rushing after rashly. She is a force that needs to be reckoned with. It would be foolhardy to go after Naiore so impetuously. Besides, it just seemed like they were taking a long time because it took a few days to post what really happened in just a few minutes. I don't think it would have been very smart to meet and then just to go after Naiore without comparing notes and making a logical decision based on those notes. Even Aragorn was leery to track the hobbits in the dark, and they were valued friends.

No kidding! But, where to start in the night without a target acquired? House to house search of Bree until they stumbled over Barrold Ferney?

Lespheria provided direction. That, added to intelligence gathered has been enough for some to have their Ranger characters go off in search during the night.

I'll be more than happy to move it along. My perspective is this. I've been delaying to allow Barrold to begin interacting with other folk - Kaldir notably. Were the Rangers following Naiore, they'd have their targets split as Barrold headed in one direction to dispose of the gelding and Naiore in the other. Can't have the capture too simple as it's not due to happen yet and that would only make the Rangers look a little foolish - something we wish to avoid.

I'm eager to get this moving along, but discussion cropped up as to where Naiore, Vanwe and Barrold should be. It's yet to be resolved. Should I post, inevitably, someone or the other shall be jumping up and down about it not suiting their plans.

Hence, this discussion. My opinion is that it would be easier for us all if the Rangers set up a watch over Barrold's house. If they don't know where Naiore is, it's unlikely they'll venture in blindly. Meanwhile, watching Barrold will at least take care of that aspect of their hunt.

Why it is necessary for Rangers to search "tonight" RP time, I don't really know. Then again, I'm not planning for any Ranger character. That lies in the hands of those who are. I'm doing my level best to accomodate people's opinions and wishes.

Not to forget, last time I hurried this along, I ended up gazumping people. Not keen to repeat that.

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Just because Vanwe underestimates herself doesn't mean she should just sit there, tied, without trying to do something to free herself. Heck, even Pippin tried to help by throwing away his Lorien brooch. Why isn't she doing anything? Why isn't she trying to find her mother and figure out what's going on?

Were Vanwe conscious, she would be doing something. Perhaps I have not been clear enough in describing what was done to her by her mother and her present state. Let me remedy that now.

Naiore administered a tincture she developed. Its effects are to pull all energy, physical and mental, into the body for a period of sustained exertion. It dulls the mind increasingly as the hours pass. Naiore administered it at morning. It is now late evening. Vanwe is exhausted physically and mentally.

However, Vanwe is recovering and much faster than Naiore could have ever expected, hence Naiore's surprise at sensing Vanwe's projection at all. Believe me, once Vanwe is conscious and able to move muscles, she will not simply lie bound quietly.

Once again, the plot states that Vanwe accompanies Naiore willingly or otherwise until Rivendell. When she wakes bound, Naiore's ability to gull Vanwe will be reduced. It will become a process of threat and inuendo from that point. I can't have it too easy for Vanwe or Naiore if this is to be an interesting RP.

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Vanwe is stagnant.

If that is true, I'll have Barrold kill her now and you can run the RP without her.

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That's why she needs to escape. She's been searching for Mom and Dad for years, through many dangers. Why is she giving up now? What happened to her carving knife? Why can't she cut her bonds with that? She doesn't have to cut the bonds that bind her hands. All she needs to do is cut her feet and crawl away. And now she doesn't even find the impetus to try and escape to find her mother?

This relates to my earlier comments about understanding the physical state Vanwe is in.

I won't repeat it again. I think we have that straight now.

Oh, and Vanwe does escape.... at Rivendell as per the plot outline. Fear not on that count.

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Right now, in my opinion, this story lacks life. There is nothing to spice it up. We need suspense. Every story needs suspense. Right now, a reader can predict what's going to happen. But if Vanwe escapes for reasons within her character, the reader will be left in suspense. Will she find her way to Lespheria and tell them about Naiore, or will the love of her mother lead the rangers or Lespheria away? Will she run into her mother? And if Avanill captures her, will Avanill hang onto her or give her back to Ferny or Naiore? Right now Avanill is another stagnant character, through no fault of Everdawn. If Avanill captures Vanwe, there could be an interesting, maybe even humorous, flare of tempers between Ferny (who would of course pursue Vanwe in fear of Naiore) about who gets to keep Naiore's daughter.

All of what you suggest and descibe forms the next chapter for this RP that takes us from Bree to Imladris.

Predictability is the cost of preplanning events in a RP to the extent Barrow Downs encourages. Nature of the beast at this website.

Oh, and predict for me the ultimate ending of the RP?

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Right now Vanwe is doing the opposite of what she's been doing for her entire life. All she's been concerned about is finding her parents. Now her mother has drugged her and abandoned her in the hands of a swine like Ferney. Why? Naiore's actions have not been explained, no motive has been identified. Why is she so frightened of her daughter? It seems that Vanwe is giving up too easily from what I've learned of her character.

I thought I'd covered off on these questions before. Certainly you have asked them and I had replied. I was unaware you still had questions.

Too early to say that Vanwe has given up. The RP has yet to move to a point where Vanwe has had the chance to decide all hope is lost.

As for Naiore's motivations, I suggest you read back through this discussion thread and the character profile and then specify where earlier elaborations leave unanswered questions so that I can respond.

Here's what I've said so far.

Naiore thinks Vanwe is a threat and a potential weapon being used against her by her foes. She thinks Vanwe is in league with Kaldir. When she learns of Menecin's survival, she'll think that Vanwe's father is also using her daughter.

She suspects of Vanwe what she knows herself to be capable of. That is treachery, deceit, murder... She knows Vanwe has been tracking her, and Naiore has only ever been hunted in the past by those who seek justice. That Vanwe was simply seeking her family doesn't occur to her and neither does the fact that everything Naiore does now to use and destroy her daughter will only achieve the end she wishes to avoid. Naiore is turing Vanwe into the weapon she thinks Vanwe already is.

A case of self-fulfilling prophecy.

So, no offense, but that does not mean that I have to agree. I think some patience and review of what has been discussed in the past would be of great assistance here.

Right now, I'm not editing anything nor posting anything until this confusion over what the Rangers wish to do regarding Barrold Ferney's house is resolved.

That is up to people other than me.

Hilde Bracegirdle · 10-08-2003, 05:49 PM

I am working on the assumption now that the ranger’s will have combed Bree and found nothing (If Elora wants to have some rangers around Barrold’s for Vanwe to hear let us know, also if they should mention Naiore or not). By the time they meet up it could be daybreak. That give Barrold time to get Vanwe out of there and Kaldir time to interact with his folk. The rangers can find Barrold’s House and tracks when Dulrain shows up with its location in the early morning. Amandur & Lespheria can had out on there path to Tallas at the same time.

Is this correct?

PS About the cellar, very simple, if the floor is wood there is a cellar, if it is dirt there is not. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Please excuse me but I haven't had a chance to read Elora's last post as we cross posted, (but did see my name mentioned curiously enough). I will look at it more length when time permits. Adieu!

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

Elora · 10-08-2003, 05:53 PM

Hilde, I'm not going to venture an opinion.

Between Vanwe being either too powerful or too stagnant, seems I can't get it right.

So, it's up to you Ranger writer folk to figure out what you want to do and let me know.

Ealasaide · 10-08-2003, 06:17 PM

Okay, everybody, let's take a deep breath and move this puppy forward! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Here's where we are now:

Kaldir is on his way back to his camp where Gilly & Benia are held.

Barrold Ferney has just re-entered Bree by the west gate.

Toby Longholes is outside Bree's west gate, having avoided being caught by Kaldir.

Naiore is holed up somewhere on Bree Hill.

Amandur & Lespheria are searching northern Bree for signs of Naiore's wherabouts.

Rauthain, Maethor, Dulrain, & Avanill are at the Prancing Pony.

Vanwe is in Barrold's cellar/basement.

*************************

Here's what needs to happen next:

1) Barrold needs to collect Vanwe & bring her to where Naiore waits. On the way, he will encounter Avanill, who has left the inn.

2) Dulrain catches Toby Longholes & takes him back to the Prancing Pony, where he is interrogated by the Rangers. They learn about Ferney's house at that time.

3) At dawn (or sometime therafter) the Rangers search the now deserted house.

4) Barrold & Avanill raid Tallas' supplies.

5) Somehow the Rangers find out about the raid. Suspecting Naiore, they go to investigate.

6) Naiore & company depart from Bree in the direction of Rivendell, as Naiore learns through Avanill that Menecin is in Rivendell.

7) Rauthain, Maethor, & Dulrain go after the trail of Barrold Ferney, et al, while Amandur & Lespheria try to find Tallas, with the intent of rejoining the others later.

8) Kaldir having returned to his camp & organized his group, takes off with Gilly & Benia on Naiore's trail, having found it at one of the places that Barrold has used in the past to hide fugitives.

9) The Rangers discover that someone is ahead of them on the trail. They can assume it would be Kaldir since they know he is in the area & interested in catching Naiore.

10) THEY ALL LEAVE BREE.

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Unless anyone has any SERIOUS objections, I think that is how we should proceed. Please, everyone, let's try to work together & quit quibbling so much over details, eh? This is a team project here. Let's try to open it up a bit & give everyone a little room to run!

Elora · 10-08-2003, 06:28 PM

If that's the final word, that's fine by me.

I will wait on posting anything for a few hours yet.

Nerindel · 10-08-2003, 06:56 PM

ok, I have just deleted what I was going to suggest, but it was pretty much the same as what Ealasaide has just posted [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

just one edit Amandur and Léspheria are searching the south side of town [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Also Lésperia has seen Kaldir and his prisoners in this Rpg and already suspects him of hunting Naiore and Vanwe!

Anyway great job Ealasaide that plan sounds good to me [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Imladris · 10-08-2003, 07:03 PM

My post was offered as helpful criticism to make this game better. I am not trying to control Vanwe (I never claimed I was, and I don't want to); I am not trying to control this game. I offered my opinion: this is what I thought a Discussion Thread was for. I highly resent the sarcastic comments that you wrote, Elora, as you were twisting my words and putting your own in my mouth. I was merely pointing out inconsistancies. I am not an idiot, and unfortunately I said some things that were exaggerated to make a point. Of course I know that Vanwe has abilities -- everybody has abilities: that is a given. I never said you should kill Vanwe. I never implied that she should be killed. I am well aquainted with the story of this game and with Vanwe because I took three days to read The Green Dragon Inn Part 4, starting on page two, and I read until I entered Green Dragon Inn Part 5 and Gilly disappeared.

I know that elves don't "read" people in the sense you think I mean. What you think I mean is a form of telepathy: that's Star Trek. This is Middle-earth. You took what I meant too literally.

When I wrote my post, I took what I knew about Vanwe and tried to nicely and politely point out where I thought she was acting contrary to her character. That was all this was about. I did not intend for this to become an attack on your character. This was supposed to be positive and helpful criticism. Now I'm being flamed for it.

To me, being conscious means being awake, which it seems Vanwe was in her last post. Hence my misunderstanding. I guess we have different definitions on being "conscious."

I did not mean permanent escape. I suggested that she could run into her mother, Barrold, or Avanill. That doesn't sound like escape to me. Sounds more like out of the frying pan and into the fire.

What do you think I am? We are all "authors" here to a story. An author knows what's going to happen. I was talking about from a reader's perspective, which I mentioned in my post.

This is not my game. I never claimed it was. I was making suggestions, I was trying to approach a problem from a different angle. Whatever you guys decided to do was fine by me. I just thought I'd add my opinions first and let the game owners make the final decision. I was trying to make it so that everybody could be kept in character, and at the same time pointing out things that didn't make much sense. When I write, I have somebody read my stories to see if there are any inconsitancies or to see if something is not clear. If they have a problem, I fix it. That was all I was doing with Vanwe. However, you are clearly upset with my post. I was trying to be friendly and positive. I did not mean to attack your character. You were free to disregard my suggestions, but instead you have decided to flame me for them. That is fine. If you want me to resign, you can have Naiore murder Maethor.

There is a saying that says that truth hurts. That goes for criticism as well.

piosenniel · 10-08-2003, 07:06 PM

While it’s nice to have a game plan for your RPG, it is more of a guideline than a fiat. When you subscribe to an outline too closely, it becomes as if you are backfilling in the story with your posts. You are writing your characters, in other words, to conform to the storyline, and not letting the storyline develop in a natural way from the way each player plays their character.

Sometimes it is fun to throw a twist into the game and let the other players react to it, without discussing all the ins and outs of it.

For example:

Vanwe is weak and tied up. And in a location where the Rangers could find her if they looked thoroughly. Why can’t one of them ‘find’ her? Can you effect a rescue of sorts and let Naiore and her Henchmen react to the rescue in a way which is in character for Naiore and her baddies. The rangers probably can’t take Vanwe far – since she is in a weakened state. Let Naiore have the opportunity to snatch her back.

This would spice the game up – all the writers would write independently in a sense. Someone would take the lead for the rangers and start it off, give each other enough room to hook into the situation, without wrapping the details of the action in each scene up so thoroughly. Throw hooks out to each other that another writer can latch onto with their character and take the action from there.

This is just an example of writing in a little more free-style form, and still accomplishing a goal; i.e., in this part of the Game – Naiore would at the end, have Vanwe, but the Rangers would have made her work a little harder for her prey.

As a group, you should, however, work in the way that is most comfortable for you.

_________________________________

On another note, it is best to concern yourself with the development of your own character and how he/she is going to react in a particular scene that is taking place. Unless another writer is stepping over the boundaries you have defined as comfortable for your own character, it is best if you simply have your character take in what the other character is doing and write your own character’s action with it in mind.

In other words – your character doesn’t know what is going on in the mind of the other character or what potentials the writer has set up for him/her – your character only knows what is seen, heard, etc of the other character, either from present or past direct experience or things that other characters have told him/her.

Ealasaide · 10-08-2003, 07:54 PM

Quote:

1) Barrold needs to collect Vanwe & bring her to where Naiore waits. On the way, he will encounter Avanill, who has left the inn.

2) Dulrain catches Toby Longholes & takes him back to the Prancing Pony, where he is interrogated by the Rangers. They learn about Ferney's house at that time.

3) At dawn (or sometime therafter) the Rangers search the now deserted house.

4) Barrold & Avanill raid Tallas' supplies.

5) Somehow the Rangers find out about the raid. Suspecting Naiore, they go to investigate.

6) Naiore & company depart from Bree in the direction of Rivendell, as Naiore learns through Avanill that Menecin is in Rivendell.

7) Rauthain, Maethor, & Dulrain go after the trail of Barrold Ferney, et al, while Amandur & Lespheria try to find Tallas, with the intent of rejoining the others later.

8) Kaldir having returned to his camp & organized his group, takes off with Gilly & Benia on Naiore's trail, having found it at one of the places that Barrold has used in the past to hide fugitives.

9) The Rangers discover that someone is ahead of them on the trail. They can assume it would be Kaldir since they know he is in the area & interested in catching Naiore.

10) THEY ALL LEAVE BREE.

Basically that is a guideline, provided in the hopes of getting us out of gridlock and back on track. As Pio pointed out, you have every right to make changes and run with it as you see fit or as your character might see fit. We don't have to decide every little detail & plot point in advance.

Quote:

If that's the final word, that's fine by me.
I will wait on posting anything for a few hours yet.

Elora - post anytime you are ready. The house is not being watched. Barrold can do anything he sees fit within the current situation. The outline is provided as a guideline only. The same goes for Vanwe or Naiore.

Everdawn - you might want to post & get Avanill out of the inn so that he can connect with Barrold Ferney.

Imladris - Please check your PM's! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Elora · 10-08-2003, 07:57 PM

Thanks for the suggestion Pio.

EDIT:

In the interests of resolution, I am taking the opportunity to edit.

I am utterly at a loss as to how I have personally attacked another's intelligence, character, personality, or contributions.

I shall make a decision as to whether I continue with this RP tomorrow.

Imladris: noticed your earlier edit at the top of the page. Vanwe doesn't have her knife, it was left behind with her pouch when her worn belt snapped upon being captured. The two Rangers that had found her prints in the trees discovered this at that time.

The cellar is devoid of sharp objects. Even had she a key to open the lock, she would need to be conscious to use it. Right now, Vanwe is definately not conscious and given the terrible nature of the elixir given to her will not be conscious for some hours yet.

[ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Elora ]

Ealasaide · 10-08-2003, 08:10 PM

Elora - your characters are essential to the continuance of this game. If you drop out, the game will close.

I am working hard to remedy this situation & I ask that everyone please take a deep breath and not make any rash decisions. This could still be an excellent game and fulfill the promise it showed in the planning phase and the posts that have gone up so far. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

We have come too far and worked too hard to see it implode like this.

piosenniel · 10-09-2003, 12:41 AM

Discussion Thread Part 2 can be found HERE.

[ October 10, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

piosenniel · 07-23-2003, 11:25 PM

*** FIRST POST FOR THE IN-PLAY RPG DISCUSSION THREAD IS AT POST #144 ***

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This thread is being opened for the purposes of planning an RPG, which has grown out of a storyline developed in the Green Dragon Inn.

Its use is restricted to these writers for now:

Ealasaid
Elora
Hilde Bracegirdle
Nerindel
Snowdog

No other writers may use this thread with the exception of the Shire Moderators.

All posts by those other than those listed above will be deleted

piosenniel · 07-23-2003, 11:25 PM

Ealasaid and Nerindel have agreed to act as the main co-owners for this RPG. They will be the ones I can contact about problems with or concerns about the Game.

Both of you need to be aware of this set of requirements for Shire Game Owners:

_____________________________________________

Responsibilities of Owners/Co-owners

The basic requirement for becoming a game Co-founder (Owner) is to have played in one or more games in the Shire, Rohan, or Gondor. The moderators will look over the games in which you’ve played. We’ll be checking to see that your writing meets and/or exceeds the basic standards for the Shire. Just as importantly, we’ll make sure you have a reasonable record of posting for the particular character you play. This means posting at least once a week, with any absences longer than a week explained on the discussion thread or by PM’s to the game Owner.

As an Owner, you will be expected to check in at least once a day to the Discussion Thread and to post to the game at least 2 or 3 times per week.

You will also need to keep track of the story line and keep it moving forward so that you can meet your End Date for the Game – which is calculated from when the RPG thread actually opens and how long you estimated it would take to reach your end goal.

In situations where there are Co-owners, each Co-owner must meet the same requirements for reading the game thread and posting. You may designate a particular Co-owner who will have primary responsibility for responding to PM’s or questions on the Discussion Thread that come in from the moderators or other posters.

However, that Co-founder must consult with the other Co-founders before making any major decision such as important changes in the plotline, deciding between two posters who have applied for the same character, or responding to a note from another player or potential player indicating they have some special concerns.

This type of cooperation is especially crucial at the beginning of a game when you’re making decisions on whom to accept into the RPG. Normally, one Co-founder cannot accept a player into a game without the agreement of the others. Thus, when people apply to play, you’ll simply say:

That looks good, (NAME OF POSTER HERE). Now we’ll wait to see what (NAME OF CO-OWNER HERE) has to say.

Once the Co-owner has responded, the name can be added to the Game Players list, which will be periodically updated and brought forward on the Discussion Thread. This means the each Co-owner must read and respond promptly in the initial part of the Discussion Thread where Game Players are being taken on.

If you want to set this up differently so that one Co-owner has sole responsibility for character choices, or one Co-owner wants to take a lesser role, you can do that. But it must be spelled out to the Moderators and approved ahead of time.

If one Co-owner leaves for whatever reason, the other Owner must step in and figure out a way to take over these responsibilities. They can do this directly or take on someone else to help. If a helper is used, you’ll need to get approval from the moderator for the game.

The basic point is this:

An RPG is a team effort. There must be constant communication between Owners and Posters for things to flow well. The Owners are the most important people in a given game. There is no way you can have a strong story without having an active, courteous game Owner.

[ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

piosenniel · 07-23-2003, 11:26 PM

Elora and Snowdog, since you have also participated in one Shire game, I can also list you as co-founders of the game, provided you feel you can meet the above requirements.

Ealasaid and Nerindel will remain the main game owners and be responsible for the decisions made, though they would of course consult you for your input.

Hilde, since this will be your first Shire game, you would be eligible to be an owner in a following game.

Why you might want to be considered a co-owner in this game:

Writers who wish at some time to play in an actual RPG in Rohan, must first play in at least one Shire game, and then succesfully complete a game as an owner/founder in the Shire to be considered eligible to play in Rohan.

This, of course, does not include posting at the White Horse Inn, which you may do at the discretion of the Rohan moderator, Bethberry.

[ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

piosenniel · 07-23-2003, 11:26 PM

By the end of your planning process, this is the Proposal Form that will need to be filled out.

I'm posting it now as a guideline for the areas you will need to cover in your planning process: (Please fill it out at the end of your planning and post it on the Discussion Thread for us, Cami and Piosenniel, the two Shire moderators to review.

_____________________________________________

SHIRE GAME WORK SHEET

Please read carefully and follow all information in The Red Book of Westmarch and in Seed Stories about gaming in the Shire before filling out this form. Please be exact in your answers.

Answer in full sentences and complete paragraphs wherever appropriate so that the Reviewers will have as complete an idea as possible of your vision of the game. Reviewers for the Games are Piosenniel (Pio) and Child of the 7th Age (Sharon/Cami).

Note please, from the Guidelines for Owners you were sent, that as owner, you will be expected to check in at least once a day to the Discussion Thread and to post to the game at least 2 or 3 times per week.

You will also need to keep track of the story line and keep it moving forward so that you can meet your End Date for the Game – which is calculated from when the RPG thread actually opens and how long you estimated it would take to reach your end goal.

SUBMISSION OF THIS COMPLETED FORM TO THE MODERATORS INDICATES THAT EACH OWNER HAS READ AND ACCEPTED THE GUIDELINES FOR OWNERSHIP IN THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF OWNERS/CO-OWNERS SHEET.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~

Title:

Historical Background (This is necessary only for Games set in a time before The Lord of the Rings. It can be 2 to 3 sentences that give some basic facts about what is going on in that time period. This will help clarify the setting for the prospective players.)

Basic Storyline:

The purpose of the story is to:

This means we will know the story is over when:

Starting Location:

Likely destination:

Timeframes:

This game takes place in the ____Age at around year _______.

The storyline itself or plot covers _____ days, weeks, months.

This game requires a time commitment of _____ from me, the game owner and from the major players.

Characters needed: – be specific as to type (eg., Lothlorien Elves, not just Elves, if that’s what you need; or any other characters types from specific regions) and please indicate the number of each type you will need.

Please note for each character type needed: Race – number needed – and gender needed

Character types which would not belong:

Are there any writers you have invited to play on the game and are saving spots for them? If so, please list their names under Dedicated Characters for me. They will need to submit their Character Descriptions Forms and First Posts to me before I will open the Discussion Thread:

Dedicated Characters: (List below)

The game owner(s) will play ____ character(s). Fill out the Character Description Form completely for your character(s).

Character Description Form for owner’s character:

NAME:

AGE:

RACE:

GENDER:

WEAPONS (No magical, super-hero, mithril weapons. Just good solid Middle-earth weapons and armor only that is appropriate to the race of the character and the time period.):

APPEARANCE:

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: (No half-Elven characters. No mixed-type characters. No super-heroes. No assassins. No one all powerful, martial arts proficient, or having any magical traits. Just regular characters with normal abilities for their races only):

HISTORY:

The first post for the game:
(This should be several paragraphs long, enough to give gamers a solid sense of what the game is about and who might be involved. It should draw both readers and potential gamers into the game.)

Other information of special interest that you would like to include:

Do you want first posts for the game when the players submit their characters on the discussion thread? - YES/NO

Please note that this will mean NO character descriptions will be accepted without First Posts accompanying them. All character descriptions posted without the required First Post will be sent back to their writers.

Proposer/Owner (Please use your Barrow Downs ID):

RPGs at the Barrow Downs I have participated in are the following (if you have not, explain where you have developed your RPG skills):

Contact via PM – You must have your ability to receive Private Messages enabled in order to run a Game. We need to be able to contact you.

[ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

piosenniel · 07-24-2003, 01:46 AM

Here is a suggestion for the game presented by Elora.

Please note my comments in Bold Caps:

_____________________________________________

Elora’s suggestions:

Here's the rough outline I mentioned. Very much subject to suggestion, revision and perhaps complete re-work (I am known to obliterate much of my work if I decide it's not up to scratch)...

Naiore fled Mordor in the ruin that followed Sauron's downfall at the end of the 3rd Age. Unable to take ship to Valinor (Cirdan would likely eviscerate her upon sight, I daresay, making the oceans an altogether risky form of travel), she is trapped within Middle-Earth.
Naiore's identity is a closely guarded secret. Myths and horror stories circulate, commencing in proper at the Battle of Gladden Fields and growing and evolving through the Third Age. A very small circle know the reality of the person behind it. That select group is: Sauron, the White Council, Aragorn, those rare few of Naiore's kindred who live still and acknowledge that they know her (such is the shame upon her head that many do not - her parents included).
There is much to mop up at the beginning of the Fourth Age, cities to re-build, countries as well. Naiore disappears in the chaos and goes to ground, knowing that the hunt will certainly follow and that she no longer can use Mordor as a protection. She is alone for the first time in her long life, and she knows it (and loathes those that brought this to her - never her fault).
Her haunts in the south of habit are being watched for any fugitives. This forces Naiore into a course of action not of her choosing, and enrages her as control shifts from her grasp.
Her hatred of the Free Peoples grows apace. Forced to move north, Naiore is forced back through now unopressed and hostile lands. Where she can, she uses what remnants of Mordor's networks survive to help her escape, and then destroys them herself to prevent them from betraying her. A chain of inexplicable deaths, some welcomed and some not (hidden operatives working for Mordor that no one suspected) starts to emerge.
The authorities realize that someone of rank and authority, someone important, has escaped their net on Mordor, and they realize with dread just who it may be.
As a precaution, Menecin is moved to Lothlorien so that should Naiore be indeed alive and active, he is protected from her desperate rage.

HOW MUCH PROTECTION WILL LOTHLORIEN AFFORD, SINCE GALADRIEL WILL HAVE LEFT AT THE END OF THE THIRD AGE?
Naiore, who despises aimless wandering and a general lack of organization, soon settles on a new project - the destruction of her people and those descended from Numenor. The other "rabble" (common Men, Dwarves and Hobbits) are beneath her concern and she's to leave them to their own devices.
Naiore runs greater and greater risks, hunted and hunting, for there is nothing else for her than the ignominy of a life on the run (like an animal) or execution. Part of her wishes to force her people to execute her, for the sadness and grief in that act will cut as surely as her blades can.
Vanwe, in the chaos of Harad now suddenly released from Mordor's oppression, escapes and follows rumours north in a way more highly placed hunters can't. Vanwe, as a vagabond, gets all sorts of information from all manner of footpads, as she moves in search of answers and her parents.
Naiore reaches north, caught precariously between the Grey Havens and Cirdan, and Imladris and Elrond. Why she remains, though, is the untapped and untainted Shire. It's ripe for the picking, and Naiore is a woman with nothing to loose.

THE SHIRE IS NOT RIPE FOR PICKING AT THE END OF THE WAR – IT IS UNDER THE PROTECTION OF THE HIGH KING, AND BECOMES A CLOSED COMMUNITY. YOU WILL NEED TO CONSIDER WHERE YOU CAN MOVE THE STORYLINE TO ACCOMMODATE THIS.
Her hand, though, is held in the Shire – AGAIN, THIS WILL NEED TO BE CHANGED TO ANOTHER LOCATION by two discoveries. The first is the discovery that Vanwe has somehow followed her (a threat that needs to be dealt with). The second, through those that follow Vanwe, is that Menecin is in Lothlorien.
Naiore uses her daughter to gain safe passage to Lothlorien. Vanwe is duped by the appearance of a kind and loving mother, the one she had wished for. Naiore's pursuers realise that Vanwe, an innocent, could die if Naiore is cornered.
Naiore is successful in getting to Lothlorien, where Galadriel is waiting for her. There, Vanwe learns perhaps the saddest truth of her neglected life: Naiore cares not one whit for her.

GALADRIEL LEAVES MIDDLE EARTH IN 3021 THIRD AGE – HER LEAVING, ALONG WITH THE OTHER RINGBEARERS IS THE HERALDING IN OF THE FOURTH AGE.
I envisage a showdown, in which Naiore attempts to strike at the heart of Lothlorien and get at Menecin. Vanwe, destroyed, throws all caution to the wind and herself upon the uncertain kindness of those who wish to see Naiore stopped. Vanwe has not had a good experience with her own kin or Rangers in the past, and so for her it is a risk she takes for there is much suspicion as to Vanwe's character (implicated in her mother's escape from the Shire).

AT THIS TIME, 4TH AGE, THERE WILL NOT BE MANY ELVES LEFT IN LOTHLORIEN – MANY WILL HAVE GONE WEST OR POSSIBLY TO ITHILIEN.
Vanwe is surprised by the mercy of those she turns to, and Naiore is prevented from killing Menecin. Menecin and Vanwe reunite, Naiore slips free by the skin of her pearly teeth.
The hunt is close behind, and perhaps with some poetic symmetry, Naiore is cornered on Gladden Fields attempting to elude her pursuers. This time, there is no marauding Black Army. She realizes that there is no escape, attempts to take as many out with her as she can. She dies in battle, fierce, unrepentant and uncowed, refusing to return in chains to the ignominy of a trial run by those she considers inferior to her.
Vanwe is left with the tattered remains of her family, a people she does not know, no home to speak of and the uncertain promise of freedom and life free of evil (much like what awaits those who survived Sauron).
Menecin, bereft, takes ship to Valinor, his daughter choosing to remain behind in mortal lands.

__________________________________________________ _____

Now, assuming all this hasn't put you to sleep here's what I see. Naiore's involvement will be in the plot, and become more and more frequent as the plot develops.

However, I see much more interesting developments in the characters and stories of those that hunt her. Why and how they hunt her. Menecin will only be a supporting character (a device to get Naiore back to Lothlorien and from there on a slippery steep, downward sliding free fall).

The stories of Kaldir, Lespheria, Amandur, Silvanis, Benia (if you think she's involved) are starting to mesh together, and they are a fascinating blend of characters. I would use Vanwe as my chief character vehicle.

Initially, most references to Naiore will be historical (accounts to her crimes in the past, perhaps from survivors or those who pursue her), memory based (again survivors, and her daughter), and briefly outlined so as to place her in relation to other characters. Occasionally, depending on what she's up to, I'd elaborate on what she's actually doing to shed some light on her complex nature (an evil Elf is not easily explained, e.g Maeglin).

YES, I WOULD NEED TO SEE A FAIRLY WELL DRAWN ACCOUNT OF HER MOTIVATIONS – AND LET’S AVOID CALLING HER AN EVIL ELF

Perhaps a hint that Vanwe or her hunters picked up would pin point Naiore in some way as being in some place. Not until they all reach the North would Naiore emerge more prominently, as until then she is in hiding (unhappily so - it's not fitting for a personage of noble blood and high rank in the competitive world of Mordor to skulk about like a starving wolf).

CAN YOU PICK OUT FROM THIS STORYLINE PERHAPS ONE SEGMENT OF THE ACTION - PARE IT DOWN - SO THAT YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH A SET GOAL FOR YOUR GAME?

THE WORKSHEET WILL BE YOUR MAP AND MINE OF HOW THE GAME WILL IN GENERAL DEVELOP – I AND THE OTHER PLAYERS WILL NEED TO SEE HOW YOU ARE PROCEEDING ON TO YOUR END DESTINATION/GOAL.

THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR DEVELOPMENT OF CHARACTER AND SUBPLOT WITHIN A GAME, BUT NONETHELESS IT MUST MOVE TOWARD A DEFINED END POINT.

ALSO, THINKING AHEAD, IF YOU WISH, YOU CAN PROPOSE ANOTHER GAME SEGMENT ONCE THIS ONE IS ENDED WHICH CARRIES ON THE STORYLINE OR DEVELOPS IT IN ANOTHER DIRECTION.

[ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

piosenniel · 07-24-2003, 10:59 AM

One last point I would like you to tuck in the back of your minds while your are planning the game:

I see this game as driven primarily by the interactions of the planners' characters.

Having said that, there should be room in the game for 2 or 3 other Shire writers to participate.

You planners will, of course, determine what sort of characters you will need outside your own, and you will pick and choose the writers you want to play in your game.

piosenniel · 07-24-2003, 11:01 AM

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Open for Planning ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Ealasaid · 07-24-2003, 04:04 PM

Here are my thoughts on the direction the game should take:

Since it is based on the characters and events we have all been writing about at the inn, we should concentrate on those characters and use the events that occurred around the inn as a springboard into the game itself.

Of course, some changes would need to be made, such as the relocation of the inn scenes from the Green Dragon to the Prancing Pony (perhaps) for reasons already cited by Pio. Time period (i.e. when all this takes place) is another consideration.

Naiore would serve as the catalyst. She is the common element that unites these people, and, I believe, she is more than capable of leading them on a wild chase. Also, we can't forget the plot possibilities of the hunted hunting the hunters and vice versa. There's a lot of room for intrigue!

How does this sound?
Naiore somehow takes up with Vanwe, either by capture or deception, and takes off for the south in search of Menecin with the others in hot pursuit. Kaldir, for one, would be after them for a multitude of reasons, both mercenary and personal. Benia and Gilly would be carried along by Kaldir, not exactly as prisoners, but not free to leave either. I will explain that part later.

Lespheria and Amandur would also be on the trail, as would Silvanis.

I see the scope of the game being Naiore's flight to the south, her failed attempt to reach Menecin, and her eventual come-uppance at the hands of one or more of her pursuers. I think we should try to limit outside involvement beyond the characters we have here (and that we add to fulfill our "other writer" requirements), not getting too involved with armies or seiges or big names like Galadriel or Aragorn.

Hilde Bracegirdle · 07-24-2003, 05:34 PM

Perhaps, Naiore could feign a change of heart since she feels it unlikely that she will be able to go west. She might feel that she needs to reunite her “family” to save her own skin and make her look sincere. (Think Sauron after Melkor’s defeat). Or then again maybe she could be a bit repentant, but too proud or reluctant to admit it.

This way one can focus on the internal dynamics without a lot of disruptive travel and the questions of who has horses and who doesn't. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Naiore could obtain Vanwe and be moving on to find Menecin.

It could be fascinating to see the contrast of good and evil qualities in both Naiore and Kaldir, especially if the reader is kept undecided about each or possibly kept hoping for each one’s rehabilitation until the end.

Just a thought.

[ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

Ealasaid · 07-24-2003, 08:05 PM

I really like the whole good/evil angle within individuals in the story. I think Silvanis/Hanasian would also fall into that catagory since no one is really sure what his motivations are.

Here are some of the additional character ideas I had:
*Gilly's husband Carl Banks, male, hobbit: realising his wife has been kidnapped in Bree, he takes off on her trail. He would be a few days behind the others as it would take him a few days to get the word & he would be leaving from the Shire. He might have another male hobbit traveling with him.

*Two or three shady characters to fall in with Naiore, or, more likely, who fall under her sway. Men, most likely, as "evil elves" are few and far between. They could be traveling with her and Vanwe at some point.

*Vanwe's father Menecin. I don't know how we could work him in as a regular role, but its a thought.

Ealasaid · 07-24-2003, 08:13 PM

Hilde: by focusing on internal dynamics, would we be staying in the North? Around the area of Bree (for instance)?

Also, just as a footnote, the question of horses is probably pretty minor. The way I see it, almost everyone has a horse, except Vanwe, Gilly, and Benia. Naiore, I don't know about, but with her track record I don't think she would have any trouble obtaining a horse or two if she wanted one. Same goes for Kaldir. He could probably get his hands on an additional horse for Gilly & Benia pretty easily.

[ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaid ]

Nerindel · 07-24-2003, 10:05 PM

Hi, everyone [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Ealasaid that plot sounds good.

I think going south would be to dangerous for Naiore, so would Rivendell not be a better place to hide Menecin as the remaining elves in Lorien went with Celeborn to Rivendell?

Naiore may even try to use Léspheria to get into Rivendell as she once used Lespheria's mother, especially if she finds out her growing friendship with her daughter. but there again Lespheria's growing friendship may worry her as Lespheria could teach Vanwe things that Naiore would rather she didn't know? It could also be possible that Naiore will mistake Lespheria for her mother.

I also think that we should do our bios and try to mesh our histories with Naiore together, it may help the plot to fall into place. what do you think?

Ealasaid · 07-24-2003, 10:18 PM

Bios are an excellent idea!

Also, good point about Rivendell over Lothlorien as the final destination. Not only does it fit well with Tolkein's timeline of postwar departures, etc, but it would also eliminate a good deal of - how did Hilde put it? - disruptive travel.

[ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaid ]

Snowdog · 07-25-2003, 12:28 AM

Hey this is great! I would have commented earlier but I had to deal with a wayward teenage son most of today.

Quote:

I really like the whole good/evil angle within individuals in the story. I think Silvanis/Hanasian would also fall into that catagory since no one is really sure what his motivations are.

My character will be going by the name Hanasían as I used another when I started posting at Green Dragon. His motivations are inherently good, and is a loyal servant to King Elessar having known, and rode and served his Chief before and during the war. That said, his postwar activities in searching out pockets of evil in the former occupied lands has made him a hard man, and he has learned and found evil lurking in some of the most unlikliest places. His motivation here will be to capture Naiore, having known of her for a time though she has evaded him, and his recent discovery she had a daughter.

Anyway, that is just a sampling, as I will post a bio soon, and also I have a couple ideas for some additional characters others could write. Since the Grey Company were numbered at about thirty, and there is only documented that Halbarad was killed in the war, a couple wartime Dúnedain rangers could be added as characters, with the only requirement for them is they know Hanasían and possibly Kaldir if they were old enough to know he fell at the battle mentioned at the Green Dragon.

As for the Inn, we could move the events that have happened in the Inn from the Shire's Green Dragon to say the Forsaken Inn, a days ride east of Bree on the East Raod. That way, Hanasían's riding to Bree to contact Benia's relatives is still intact, and only puts him a few days away from returning to the Forsaken Inn. The Lorien part can be changed to Rivendell, as it was never clear whether Elrohir and Elladan ever left Middle Earth.

I guess we need to frame this part and give it the scope required by the admin. I will go over what we have with Elora's overview and Elasaid's ideas. I think we have a good story started here freestyle, lets see if we can make it fit the mold.

Elora · 07-25-2003, 04:27 AM

Sorry for the delay in getting here. I'll leave my comments and notes until after I list some suggested additional roles.

These are just what popped into my head and so throw them around, beat them up, pin them down as we all see fit. Wrestling, anyone? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Haradrim... perhaps a couple of men or women sent to bring Vanwe back before Naiore finds out the village let her escape comes in a wrath at their failure.
"Underworld" characters, seedy ones: the sort that may know about Naiore and be prepared to rat on her for the right amount despite the obvious risk to their lives. This would facilitate those who hunt her obtaining information (including young Vanwe)
Celeborn, who remained in Imladris with those who did not depart at the end of the 3rd Age. Thranduril is another possibility, as is Legolas and Gimli (who at this time are in Ithilien, which is so close to Naiore's land of birth - Belfalas)
Elrond's sons Elladan and Elrohir, who elected to become of mortal kin (following in Elrond's brother's choice). They remained with the Rangers in Arnor.

As I said, just some suggestions for additional characters for those who are looking to join our merry company.

Now, as for my comments, here goes:

Is the Shore ripe for the picking?

I understand that it is under Elessar's protection. However, to Naiore's persepective that means little. She has no regard for king nor queen, and particularly hates those descended from Numenor, as Elessar is.

For Naiore, the Shire represents a land largely untouched by the ravages of war that blighted the rest of Middle-earth through the 2nd and 3rd Ages. To bring to this "innocent" land where they are largely unaware of one such as she a measure of suffering would be a powerful temptation.

In aiming for the Shire Naiore would come smack up against Imladris and the Dunedain of Arnor who enforce Elessar's protection. She'd naturally steer a wide berth of Imladris though, not keen on turning herself in for justice.

So it seems Bree is a place where Naiore and Vanwe could intercept each other. It is a cross roads of sorts, and likely as far as even Naiore could get when hunted as she will be.

In Bree, Naiore will be frustrated in moving further north without forces at her command to push the boundaries in her favour. News of Menecin's relatively close location in Imladris will distract her, and Vanwe will seem like the weapon to use on her new project. (Naiore needs projects, as it's the only thing that gives her life meaning and keeps her from utter despair).

The question of Galadriel

At the time I wrote the outline, I had not yet decided when exactly it would unfold. 4th Age certainly seems to best fit for characters and plot overall, so I have suggested a location and character change (Imladris and Celeborn) to reflect this.

Showdown at the Imladris Corral

It's necessary for Naiore to not suceed here in her intentions. With Elladan and Elrohir in the north along side the Dunedain, plus those that have come from the south to bring her down, Naiore will not linger long when her plans are foiled.

It is that frustration that drives her into desperate flight and despair. She has no more projects, no capability for passage into Valinor and peace, and no peace in Middle-earth. What's more, she not a creature to renounce and admit she was wrong (a classic Noldorin trait of overweening pride that's led many astray). So, she'll run, realise that she has nowhere to go any more and stage her last fight.

Where will Naiore's Last Stand be?

Perhaps it's a little too neat and contrite, but I still like the idea of Naiore meeting her end at the Gladden Fields. That location has special significance for the character which will be clearer once I have her bio up. It's also a place where Men and Elves came together in terrible battle against the Shadow so long ago. This time, they will win.

Naiore's character

It's a sad and dark mix of some of the best and worst traits of the Noldor, with some inspiration from Saurman as well. She's not inherently evil, but she certainly became so over time. It's impossible for her not to become steeped in darkness after spending 2 Ages serving Sauron. It's Naiore's need for power and knowledge that drives her principally.

That said, she's a disciplined character, well schooled and with a fascination for darker things. She's extraordinarily sensative to the emotional states of others. She's kin to Galadriel, who is sensative in other areas. Her fascination with fear, and her people's refusal to acknowledge the more basic motiviations within themselves is what prompted her to leave their "facade" behind and go to the one creature who would leave her free to learn all she could about fear, pain, suffering and grief. For her, Sauron was a natural choice.

So, she fell prey to what she studied and darkness consumed her. She knew it, and revelled in it and the power it gave her, but it was not a perfect marriage. Naiore had never known true peace within herself as a result of her choices. It conflicts at a fundamental level with her Elven nature and she pays a heavy price for that. In that respect, she's similar to Saurman.

Her innate difference in perspective to her peers and people spawns a chasm, like in Maeglin's case. Once snared by darkness, she cannot escape and comes over time to delude herself into thinking she does not want to. That's pride, the bane of the Noldor and Feanor in particular.

So, Naiore's not evil, but she is capable of immense harm and darkness that emmanates largely from within her conflicted, damaged and isolated self. The thing with evil, though, is that it can be perpetrated by people who are not inherently evil. Evil is difficult to comprehend at the best of times, which is why this simplifcation of evil is as evil does occurs (in my opinion, at least).

It's in that belief that stories of a demon, something inherently evil, who looks like an Elf, something assumed inherently good, spring up.

Her bio will provide a clear explanation of her progression from socially isolated and curious to unrepentant servant of Sauron.

Goals for the game:

Naiore's goal will be to find peace, and the only way she can is on the swords of her foe. Humiliating as death will be, it will be immensely preferrable to suicide (not considered by Elves) or showing up to turn herself in to her people or Men. Besides, she'll get great pleasure in making those of the vaunted Free Peoples take an Elven woman's life, and in someway cast question over their high ideals (which she views with immense contempt).

So for Naiore, she will move north as quickly as she can. At first she will be elimidating any lingering informants that could close the net on her. She'll also be hoping to start a new wave of terror in the Shire. She'll then change plans in view of Vanwe and Menecin and in doing so meet her end.

Naiore will find Umbar is too dangerous for her with new management in town, pushing her north. Naiore will move through Belfalas, her home land, and possibly Ithilien and again move north as it will be too "hot" for her to remain. She'll drop by Dol Amroth, and perhaps be so bold as to venture into Elessar's city (undecided). Rohan is a stomping ground of hers, which will also prove too "hot", pushing her to get through Mirkwood and across Eriador to Bree. From there it will be to Imladris and perhaps back to he Gladden Fields.

For Vanwe, her goal is to find some trace of family and survive the wreckage her mother makes of that to forge a life of her own away from the captivity of the village in the Haradwaithe. So, she'll trail her mother until they met up at Bree.

Future RP's

As Ealasaid has mentioned, this RP draws a number of characters together and will likely draw out possibilities for future RP's. From the point of view of my characters, Naiore's story ends with this one. The only way to move there is backwards. For example, Naiore's involvement in the Gladden Fields disaster of the 2nd Age.

Menecin takes ship also, ending his tale, so again only retrospective possibilities are around for RP's. For example, how survived three separate encounters with Naiore (one resulted in Vanwe, one nearly killed him and the last killed her) after she had chosen to serve Sauron. As he studied under Maglor (being a bard), there's First Age RP possibilities there connected to Maglor.

As for Vanwe, her life is just beginning in earnest at the end of this RP. How does she pick herself up and move forward? She remains in Middle-earth. Where does she go and what does she do? That's perhaps the most "un-written" character of the three.

I'll post bios for all three soon. I'm working on an opening post too.

The reason for all that homework is my impending absence. I'll be incommunicado from 7/29 to 8/8. So I'll have my first post done and sent to someone (probably Snowdog if that is OK by him) so my absence doesn't delay anybody else.

Phew, what a mouthful of comments!

[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Elora ]

Ealasaid · 07-25-2003, 04:34 PM

Okay...Thanks, Snowdog, for clearing up a couple of questions I had. Hanasian's motives (and name!) are pretty clear. With that scenario in mind, it would make sense to have him travelling with 2 additional Rangers. That's a good idea for additional characters. That way, the new writers won't be constricted too much by any of our pre-conceived notions. It would be good, too, if they had at least a passing knowledge of Kaldir, either from pre-war experience or having met him when he was bringing in fugitives.

I, too, was worrying how to work in Benia's Bree connections and still have the Inn action take place at the Prancing Pony. Using the Forsaken Inn would solve that. I like it!

Elora: thanks for the additional character suggestions! I would tend to stay away from using Celeborn or Elrond's sons as regular roles for writers because it would be difficult and constrictive for the writers. We could use those individuals as recurring figures who are present and figure in the action, but not as regular characters... kind of like carry-along characters, where anyone can manipulate them & use them as needed.

Kaldir is there on behalf of the Haradrim who want Vanwe back. Having more Haradrim on her trail would seem kind of redundant. (Just my opinion.) But I do like the idea of the seedy Underworld characters. That's kind of fits in with my earlier suggestion of a couple of evil types who fall in under Naiore's influence. They could (maybe) try to suck up to her on one hand while trying to figure out a way to turn her in for the bounty on the other hand. How does that sound?

As far as Naiore's & Vanwe's travels up from the south, it sounds interesting, but, if we start from the inn, they are already in the north. We need to carry the action forward from the Inn.

[ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaid ]

Elora · 07-25-2003, 08:16 PM

Good points Ealasaid! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

I rather like the idea of some treacherous underworld characters who are as ready to turn on Naiore as she is on them.

There may be someone willing to take on a established character. As Celeborn and Elrond's sons were somewhat mysterious and not as elaborated upon by the great Professor, it would be possible for people to work within what character boundaries if they wish.

However, it will be entirely workable for us to use such character as points of reference for those we are playing (recognisable non controlled entities) and perhaps preferrable to handle it this way. Referencing them at all will simply better tie this RP into Middle-earth events and locations.

On location, where should we start this RP?

A long and protracted journey north could be a little dull, unless we build action into that and character entry points for individuals who hail from throughout Middle-earth.

Some alliances between characters may form, and perhaps change and evolve over time as it all unfolds.

We could just as easily start closer to Bree, or thereabouts, and create the earlier journey as a backstory in our posts.

Elora · 07-26-2003, 12:35 AM

Here we go - Character Profiles. Hopefully the dates and years all cross reference and match:

Have you ever played in an RPG at the Barrow Downs? - Yes: Green Dragon Inn, Corsets and Corsairs

_____________________________________________

Elora's character - Naiore

NAME: Naiore

AGE: 6,450 (at the commencement of the 4th Age)

RACE: Noldor

GENDER: Female

WEAPONS:
Naiore possess a range of weapons. She carries a curved long sword of Noldorin make and numerous daggers. She is at all times in possession of a long silken cord she uses as her garrote. She owns a range of torture devices, some made for her and some she invented herself over the years. Most dangerous of all is her ability to sense and manipulate the emotional states of others. She is expert in breaking apart the spirit and souls of others, inflicting pain to an infinite degree.

Naiore has adapted the typical amour of her people to suit her needs. She blends a light, finely wrought chain mail with leather. Her amour is as black as the unlit night.

APPEARANCE: Naiore is fair by Noldorin standards. She is said to be reminiscent of Galadriel in he beauty. Her hair is golden and hangs to her waist. Her eyes are a starlit silvery grey, wide, clear and large. She is slender and deceptively strong for all of her fragile beauty. Her voice is velvety and her skin is without flaw. Naiore usually wears a serene expression that belies the intensity of what passes through her mind.

Naiore favors opulent clothing, silks, velvets and brocades. She often wears jewelry, and was an incongruous figure as she passed through the halls of Barad Dur in her finery. She has exquisite taste and prefers luxuriant indulgences. Even her amour and leather are impeccable. Despite her work, Naiore is fastidious and has not great like of blood and gore. When not in amour, Naiore resembles the highly born Elven noble woman she is.

However, her inky amour is known throughout the southern lands and is etched on the minds of survivors. It is that, combined with her serene expression and emerald eyes that most remember no matter how much they crave to forget.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES:
Naiore is a complex blend of some of the strongest abilities and worst flaws in her kindred. She is a self-possessed and highly disciplined character. Ambitious and driven, she has contempt for weakness such as she sees it. She is manipulative and exploits her appearance whenever possible. Naiore has a formidable intellect, and is calculating. Her curiosity and need for knowledge are what rules her. She has a fascination for the baser darker and wilder aspect of life.

Naiore has no time for crudeness or other indecency. Indeed, she can be the soul of decorum and sophisticated grace until such time as she is murdering you. Naiore is a loner, rarely forming any lasting relationships. She avoids openly lying where ever possible, but uses deception readily. Naiore is tenacious. She refuses to admit defeat.

She has considerable contempt for rulers and nobles, and an implacable hatred of Numenorian and Eldar alike. A sensualist, Naiore’s weakness is for finer things in life and beauty. She believes herself superior to most around her. Any compassion or capacity to love is hidden deeply. Naiore is an Elf who believes all is lost and henceforth she has nothing to loose. The only limits she observes are those she sets herself.

HISTORY:
Naiore was born 12 S.A in Belfalas during the time where her people started to rise to dominance. Elven cities were being founded across the land and it was a time of great hope. She was born into a noble family, her father and mother both holding a place at Gil-Galad’s court. Naiore was also born with the ability to sense the emotions of those around her. This ability grew as she did. A serious child, often lost in her own world, she was doted upon by both parents. Naiore was both fascinated and slightly repulsed by other people. She sought few friends and had little regard for the opinions of others.

As she grew older, her mother began to wonder about her daughter. They tried to induce Naiore to participate in the society in which she had been born. Whilst she was not openly rebellious, she found ingenious ways to avoid or discourage such ventures. As her gift grew, Naiore noticed a discrepancy between the façade of civilization and the inner emotions of those within it. She became fascinated with impulses that many refused to acknowledge existed within themselves. The forbidden nature of her inquiry seduced her further. When her forays became too confronting, Naiore was prohibited from further investigation.

It was then that Naiore realized that she was somehow wayward and different. She became more isolated, and developed contempt for the apparent foolishness of her parents and kin. Meanwhile, she continued to explore the more fundamental aspects of personality such as fear, anger, pain, greed and lust. Her pride grew, and she discovered she had a certain power from this knowledge. In particular, pain attracted her. It was so prevalent in those who had survived the First Age.

During this time of secret forbidden knowledge, Naiore met and became betrothed to Menecin, another who was different. War was brewing over the sea, and Naiore could sense a power growing. It tempted her. Proud and contemptuous of her own kindred, Naiore sensed that many of her forbidden questions could be asked and mayhap answered by this new power. Then she would have new knowledge and with that so much more. The alternative was a stultifying life as wife to a wandering, itinerant bard whose insights into the emotional jungle were limited to songs and poems. Or perhaps she could beg leave to serve as Galadriel’s hand maiden. It was not enough.

She waited as war loomed larger and larger. She became distant, for she had already left. Her ambitions always traveled far ahead of her. On a stormy night, Naiore abandoned Belfalas in the year 3429. When Sauron returns to Middle-earth, Naiore is waiting for him. As Menecin and her people sought her, Naiore found herself in a new place. She was both welcomed and mistrusted. It amused Sauron greatly to have an Elf in service with orcs. She was tested, time and again, and grew in stature within Mordor.

Her special talents were encouraged and grown. She became adept at interrogation and torture. She was able to plan and execute terror campaigns that could not be left to orcs nor even entrusted to Wraiths. Naiore sought one answer in particular. She would often ask victims in the throes of their last moments, “From where does fear spawn?” The answer never came, but her hunger for it did not abate. Sauron used her throughout Khand and Harad, to inspire obedience and terror in the lands under his yoke. She worked alone, and proved gifted. Her discipline, ability and determination made her a horrific weapon and she ranged widely.

Naiore entered Rohan for the first time in the year 3430 S.A and there began to bring Mordor’s insidious terror to the north. She preyed for long years upon the Men of that land. Rumor of her spread, but it was not until the Battle of Dagorlad that Naiore openly emerged. She fought with Sauron’s hosts against the Last Alliance, Elven fair with foul shadow at her back. She slew Elf and Man alike, in the grip of terrible desperation. Her kindred saw her and recoiled in horror at what she had become.

At the defeat of Sauron, Naiore fled south with those that survived. Barad-dur was under siege. She plunged into Khand and Harad, where her terror still kept the Men there compliant, and waited. She could sense Sauron still and she had nowhere else to go. Naiore slipped into Dol Guldur over the long years, and once again aided Sauron in her addictive search for power and knowledge. She made one detour that was not at Sauron’s bidding, and it is rumored that she did this more than once.

Naiore encountered Menecin. She all but destroyed him through deception, cruelty, manipulation and suffering. She thought him dead when she left him again in the year 2091 T.A. When she discovered she was pregnant, she believed it was Menecin’s revenge from beyond the grave. She kept all knowledge of her pregnancy to herself. Her competitors in Mordor would use it against her. Elven fundamental beliefs prevented her from ridding herself of the child. Naiore went back to Harad, much to the wrath and chagrin of Sauron, and bore Vanwe. She sensed her child’s gifts could perhaps rival her own. Naiore made an arrangement with the remote village. They were to keep Vanwe there, in perpetuity, or suffer her full ferocity. That arranged, Naiore returned to Mordor and Sauron. Vanwe’s existence was secret.

The fall of Sauron brought Naiore’s career to a sudden end. Gone was her stature and position. Gone was the protection Mordor offered her. Gone also was the reason she lived. She had no answers still, and the prospects of ever finding them seemed remote. Naiore again went to ground, this time utterly alone. Her people were leaving, yet she had no place with them. Her foes were hunting for her, and her usual safe haunts were no longer safe. Bereft of ambition, and having sacrificed everything for knowledge she did not have, Naiore is faced with a crisis. She had been waiting for the day when Sauron would have dominion over the lands. Revenge on those who had taken her future from her galvanized her into action. As she set about, Naiore learnt of a land called the Shire, citizens of which had engineered this ignominious defeat. Once again, she sets herself a northward course, choosing that over accepting defeat. The Shire would be made to suffer more than Khand, Harad and Rohan ever had.

_____________________________________________

Elora's post for Naiore

The morning shadows proved stubborn despite the rising of the sun in her summer glory. Naiore made the most of what little providence seemed availabled in their existance. She remained still and at relative ease in the embrace of a shadow cast by the ancient bole of a fig tree. It loomed massive over her, surrounded by the adjoining woods that carpeted the land around the inn she was watching.

Some may account it a pleasant place. For Naiore, it was a land of failure and frustration, a wretched place and she had little love for the tree or anything else that lived within it's bounds. She was difficult to see, folded as she was in morning darkness. Her inky leathers bore the stains of hard travel. Mud daubed her boots, all but obscuring the delicate silver tracing a vine up her boots. Her state and presence gave rise to a great many questions, the answers to which Naiore did not greatly care to entertain as she cast a simmering glance towards the Forsaken Inn.

Rangers, cursed scions of Numenor, had pushed her hard through the wilderness. She had managed to elude them, her skills tested as they had not been in the past 12 years. Still, although she was for the moment safe, she was far from pleased. It grated to be sitting beneath a shedding tree encrusted with mud. She should, right at this moment, be running in free abandon further to the north. She should, as she sat in darkness gathering her wits and thoughts, be bringing a new tide and era to a land that had escaped the harsher ravanges of war.

Naiore flicked a braid back over her shoulder, it's golden weight added to the other seven that hung down her back. Instead, she had been cheated of even the small prize of the Shire. Rangers and her own people conspired to hem her in and bring her down like an animal. They would take, bound hand and foot, to face justice as the ignorant liked to call it. There was no justice. Those who sought it were fools, nothing more. If anything, two ages spent in the turmoil of Middle-earth had taught her that.

She who had held such power in countless lands, mastered terror and was mistress of the hounds of war and hell, sat in a cold wood. Even had she tried for the Havens, she could not penetrate the bristling ring set in place by Elessar around the Shire. His name curdled in her mouth. Twelve years spent running for this!

Naiore raised starlit grey eyes to consider the Inn once more. Her face was impassive, as often it was, carved elven beauty remarkable even amongst her own kin. Her face had beheld horror untold, she had wrought it with her own hands, for reasons few could understand. Now she sat waiting for an incipient snare to spring, dirty and desperate but not without her pride. She wore that like armour. It had gotten her through before this day.

The Inn was quiet in the early morning. Her gaze shifted to the stables, where it was said her daughter was. Naiore could see no sign of Vanwe just yet, but her sources were adamant. They well knew the price their lies would earn them. It was a difficult death at the hands of a Ravenner, merciless at the pinnicle of Sauron's Order of terror and suffering.

Somewhere was a Ranger too, one she knew. She had expected to find Kaldir skulking in the forest. Such acts were not beneath him as they were her. The presence of both Kaldir and Vanwe was not a coincidence that could be ignored. She should have killed the whelp when she was born, unwanted by-blow that Vanwe was. The idea that some long buried maternal instinct prevented her was laughable should the consequences of her restraint not be so perilous.

Vanwe should be well south, in the desolate Haradwaithe, kept with the goats and the barbarians she had left her with. The fact that she was not, had left and survived the journey north and eluded capture told Naiore much. The fact that Vanwe was known to be tracing her told her more. She would be a woman now, mature and no longer a helpless babe. Perhaps she could use Kaldir to put an end to her and her threat. She could see to Kaldir after that.

But the fallen Ranger would need to be pushed, if only to see past his immediate mercenary loss in Vanwe's death. It remained to be seen if she could achieve that. He had proved difficult to break, those years ago. Kaldir was a rare challenge, one she had enjoyed then as she hoped to soon now.

Naiore waited out the morning. Soon they would rise and begin their days. Vanwe would appear. She worked in the stables, assisting a man who was no real threat for the likes of Naiore. Kill Vanwe and Kaldir, attempt again to push north without a tail, and see if bloodshed could not find the Shire afterall. She was without any other purpose, and she would pursue this with a breathtakingly singular will that proved stronger than steel.

The Free Peoples could not hope to contend with her. Sauron himself had never truly conquered all of her heart and soul. Menecin neither. In the face of all she had endured and perpetrated throughout the wars of the Second and Third Age, rising time and again, ceaselessly vigilant in her quest for knowledge that had consumed her life, achieving the death of her daughter and Kaldir was nothing but a light aside.

Perhaps, Naiore mollified herself, one of them held what she looked for. Perhaps they could tell her from where fear spawned. It was unlikely, but possible. She held to that, for it made the ignomy of her failure in recent months to reach the Shire, her fugitive life since Sauron's fall lesser. How they would have laughed to see her reduced to such a state, provided they escaped her with the facility to laugh intact within their bodies and souls. She could endure a rough night and hard travel if it meant the achievement of all she had endured and suffered for.

Whilst her riddle of fear circled in her head, Naiore watched from the trees still garbed in morning shadow. She needed but the slightest opportunity to begin, and she had tired of idle waiting and ceasless flight.

_____________________________________________

Elora's character - Menecin

NAME: Menecin

AGE: 6,729 (at the commencement of the 4th Age)

RACE: Noldor

GENDER: Male

WEAPONS:
Menecin possess the weaponry expected of an Elf who lived through three tumultuous ages. He has a sword and bow and daggers, all of Noldorin make. His amour is typical Noldo, a combination of light steel and leather worn by all who fought in battle. At the opening of the 4th Age, he has all but forgotten weapons and amour.

APPEARANCE:
Menecin is a tall Noldo by their standards. He has the dark hair of his people and their fairness also. His eyes are a piercing blue sapphire and they see far indeed. He is not powerfully built, but is by no means thin or weedy. His hands are long fingered and deft, a mark of his profession and ability. His voice is deep and musical and his smile, when it is seen, is as bright as the lamps of his people.

Menecin’s clothing reflects his Elven heritage, although in latter days he pays it little attention. He wears the natural fabrics favored by his people in deep shades of jewel color. Menecin favors royal blue, and has done since he was a boy. He is no stranger to elaborate court garb, however he prefers more functional clothing by habit. In the times he roamed the land, he went clad as a hunter and warrior, for he was a little of both at that time.

His trademark possessions are his richly carved leather pack, in which he carries his papers and music, his flute made of mithril silver and his lap harp which he carries over his shoulder in a beaten and scuffed hard leather case.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES:
Menecin was born at a time when Elves were discovering Men in Beleriand. He is well acquainted with the Edain, wandered amongst them. He showed his gift for music at an early age, something his parents thought held extraordinary promise. He was a quiet child, peaceful and patient. He learnt quickly. He had little to say, and most of that he said through his craft as a bard. Those around him realized that when he did speak, Menecin was an individual that bore listening to. He had an artist’s insight and perspective. Fostered by Maglor, Menecin attained a first hand understanding of the depth of grief and woe that beset the Noldor, the Sons of Feanor in particular. He is no stranger to sorrow and strife.

Menecin’s solemn nature sometimes seemed fey. He formed few close relationships and was not a man given to whim. What he did, he did with all of his being, possessed as he was of great passion and the strength to feed those passions.

He is a capable fighter, terrifying when battle merges with a passion. He fought in the First Age where necessary and acquitted himself well at such times. He has little interest in such reputations though. He acquired an air about him that resulted in few people wishing to trifle with him. He was quiet, possibly dangerous, and liable to see things exactly as they are no matter how bleak that may be.

He is sometimes seen as taciturn, and is stubborn. He resists being led. In recent years, Menecin is a shell of his former self. He has lost his passion for life, but cannot bring himself to let go of mortal lands. He is dangerously melancholy, given at times to bouts of black rage that consume all around him. Those few whom truly know him see a stranger. Many think him insane, until they see the entirely sane streak of agony in his eyes. There are few who can withstand his glance now, and what little music he puts his mind too is achingly painful.

HISTORY:
Menecin was born in 305 F.A during the time of the “Long Peace” in Beleriand. His birth coincided with the emergence of Men, and so Menecin grew up at a time when the Noldo were discovering the Edain and times were relatively good for the Exiles. His parents were of good standing, although not high born. They discovered his musical promise and he went to be fostered by Maglor to study the craft of the bard. There, Menecin developed a reputation for his musical ability and his love of language.

Menecin also discovered the tragedy of the Noldor. His mentor was bound by the terrible oath that caught all Feanor’s Sons. The Long Peace ended, war fell on Beleriand and the oath claimed Maglor. Menecin fought battle and acquitted himself well in that time. He was habitually quiet and somewhat grim, and had little time for merriment during the First Age. The tragedy of his people touched him deeply, particularly when he turned away from Maglor towards the end of the First Age. In this time, Menecin started to emerge as a gifted composer and musician.

Menecin decided to remain in Middle-earth, restless and unready to go to Valinor with the bulk of his people and his parents. He drifted with the remnant of the Noldor to what is now known as the Bay of Belfalas. For a time, Menecin again knew peace. His reputation grew and he rose in status in the court of Gil-Galad. Menecin largely kept to himself, the merriment of the feasts interesting him little. From time to time he would wander the wild places of the world.

It was as he returned from one such a journey that Menecin first encountered Naiore. She was at that time a maiden. Like him, she had little taste for feasts and had strayed from one on that fateful day to wander in a stand of fir trees by the shore of the ocean. As she danced over the sand to the wind singing in the fir trees, Menecin watched. Beautiful even amongst her own kin, he knew himself lost as he watched her move. He added his voice to the song of the wind, and a courtship was begun.

Menecin found cause to remain in Belfalas and not wander. He found in Naiore a muse of sorts. She fascinated and captivated him, most unlike the other maidens of their people. She was of noble blood, descended from Finarfin, and he harbored little hope of marrying her. Yet, Menecin sought her hand and to his enduring surprise was granted Naiore. They became betrothed in 3262 S.A, the year that Sauron was taken as prisoner to Numenor. Unrest after a long peace was stirring again, and Menecin decided to wait until that unrest had calmed before he wedded Naiore. It proved to be a fateful decision.

Menecin, an experienced warrior from the First Age and now betrothed to a noblewoman, found his responsibilities in this time increased. He was drawn into Gil-Galad’s court and there he felt the winds of war blowing around him. He noticed a change in Naiore too, something he attributed to the growing strife. He knew his love was sensitive to such things. Menecin did not discover that Naiore had vanished until her distraught father came to him seeking his daughter.

Thinking that she had fallen prey to the growing shadow that Numenor was falling rapidly under, Menecin abandoned court in search of her. His search failed, as did that of his kinsmen. Haunted by guilt and grief, for Menecin loves deeply or not at all, he refused to abandon hope. War returned to Middle-earth with Sauron, and he became embroiled in the Last Alliance as did many of his kin for he followed Gil-Galad.

Menecin was not at the battle of Gladden Fields. Word came to him after that terrible battle of Naiore. She was alive, it was said, and she fought with Sauron. Scandal and shame gripped her family. He could not believe it, and did not. Her family renounced her as a traitor, and her parents fled to Valinor in horror. Menecin was outspoken in his denial and it earnt him disfavor. He forsook court and embarked on a series of searches for Naiore.

At the time that Ithilen was abandoned in the year 2901 T. A due to orc incursions from Mordor, it is known that Menecin encountered Naiore. He barely survived. The refuge of Henneth Annun found him all but dead on their doorstep. The Men aided Menecin as best they could. Menecin went north, seeking death, and found instead Lothlorien. Recognized, he was taken in and there held under protections should Naiore return. He was also protected from himself. Menecin sank into hopelessness, depression and rage.

He refused to go West at the end of the 3rd Age without Naiore. Unable to take him out of his madness, he was left at Imladris with those few who remained behind. Menecin barely spoke by that time, and his music lay dormant and silent within him.

_____________________________________________

Elora's post for Menecin

The stars were perhaps their most beautiful in early morning. Menecin had remained sleepless through enough nights to make such assessment with certainty. Imladris was peaceful. He was not. It was an irony that never failed to shred what little grip he had on lucidity. The rage and grief twisted upon itself a little tighter. It never got tight enough to stop.

If he stilled, he could hear the breathing of those that watched. As he studied the clear morning sky, he wondered not for the first time what they watched for. They were waiting for the storm to break loose. He knew it for he saw it in their eyes when they thought he was not watching. He never stopped watching though. To stop would be to surrender to the dark fog that sinuously seeped into every thought and dream.

Beside him lay a lap harp. He had left it out all night, instead of covering it from the cool air. A harp such as this deserved better. This harp had played with Maglor. Maglor himself had overseen its construction, had plucked it's strings. Menecin plucked at a string himself. Maglor had gone mad. He had watched it unfold before him. Another irony that did not escape him. He was following in Maglor's steps, but he had taken no terrible oath other than to love her.

Her face was carved upon his memory, as was her voice and her scent. He could feel her upon his skin still. Menecin's eyes closed, the ache rising. She was there, just beyond his touch. No evil was in her that could be seen. Yet her actions were filled with such malice of intent. The rage sharpened and the grief. She was there but was lost, as was he. Adrift in pain, the world shattered by love, vast gaping wounds in his spirit that did not heal. Neither did he die. Even in her pain there was no mercy.

"Perhaps a song to welcome the day will grant what succor sleep did not this night, Menecin."

He could not keep the bitter smile from his lips as he struggled to keep what raged within him in abeyance. The savagery must have shown in his spahhire eyes. It was a brutal light that was revealed to one of the many who watched over him.

"There is no more music," he snarled in reply. The expression of shock was to be expected. Menecin saw it too often to expect anything less. He drew himself back, sealing off his senses. A few short hours, when night was done and the day not yet begun, he allowed himself. He would awaken within him, undead, unalive, in the transitory hours of each day. He would float. He had been brought to anchor by the Elf who had watched him through the night.

Menecin unfolded his tall frame, clad in the customary finery of a skilled bard who had performed remarkable feats of bravery and courage. Wisdom gleaned from three Ages in Middle-earth blended with his distress, making him dangerous to any and all, including himself. He turned, and walked unhurridley back towards the chambers they alloted him at Imladris. Their comfort was barely noticed by Menecin. All was hell.

Behind him, in the eastern sky, day's blush had begun. The stars winked out, one by one, and he withdrew into himself. The startled Elf trailed him, wary and concerned with the bard's beloved harp cradled carefully in his arms. Menecin closed the door to his bedroom firmly. The Elf found the harp's aged and battered case and gently placed it into it's wardship. He straightened, looking at the wooden door that sealed Menecin away from the world.

As many had done before, he shook his head in sorrow. A hint of the bard's formidible passion and greatness had emerged, only wracked with anger. All of it was brought about by one woman, her name no longer spoken. Her bounty price was the highest ever set. No trace of her though, apart from the trail of ruin she left scattered through the lands. For her, he suffered. The Elf seated himself at a nearby table and inked the quill that waited.

Next to the date, he recorded his observations.

"No change, no glimpse of relief, only rage."

His quill hovered a moment and was then set aside. He did not add the other comments that filled his head. Instead, what he did record was the latest on a page filled with similar comments. Books spanning decades, hundreds and thousands of years, contained the same dreary pattern. How anyone endured such torment, refusing to believe that she was indeed what she was known to be, defied imagination. It would have been better that he did not survive. Sometimes, it is best if the healers fail.

The Elf rose once more and stoked the small fire in the grate to warm the room for the next who would watch Menecin. Within his room, Menecin sat disconsolately with his thoughts and attempted to free himself from madness that always loomed and never swooped to relieve him of self-awareness. He longed for it with a need that shamed him.

_____________________________________________

Elora's character - Vanwe

NAME: Vanwe

AGE: 120 (at the commencement of the 4th Age)

RACE: Noldor

GENDER: Female

WEAPONS:

Vanwe possess a belt knife only, but will make do with whatever is to hand as she needs to. That includes anything or sometimes nothing, all depending on where she finds herself. Her limited wealth and propensity to leave in haste wherever she may be makes it difficult to accrue and keep any possessions, weapons included. Uneasy with weaponry, she prefers to avoid it if possible.

She has no armour apart from her wit and survival instinct.

APPEARANCE:
Vanwe is in many ways her mother’s daughter. She possesses the delicate beauty that is the hallmark of Finarfin’s descendants. Her hair is spun gold that falls long to her waist. Her face is evocative of her mother also. She has ivory skin, delicate facial bone structure, high cheekbones and high brow. Her eyes are a deep blue, sapphire, courtesy of her father. She is tall and lithe.

Vanwe’s clothing reflects her childhood in the Haradwaith. It is simple, worn and somewhat sparse by Elven sensibilities and custom. Her stature in the Haradwaith was low, and so she wears no gold or any jewelry. Vanwe wears a simple periwinkle blue cotton dress, acquired on the road when her southern clothing was in imminent danger of unraveling and brought much suspicion upon her whilst traveling. Gondor was still skirmishing and fighting with the Harondor in the opening years of the 4th Age. She also has heavy cloak, cotton, the colour of which is now indistinguishable. This is also acquired, at the time of her flight from the Haradwaith, and is her only protection from the weather. It shows signs of hard use and wear, much like her dress, and once was a deep indigo blue in kinder times. It has a deep hood in which Vanwe shelters from the elements and unwanted inspection and dwarfs her slender frame.

Vanwe wears worn boots on small feet of brown leather. They are light, for the heat of the Haradwaith and not well equipped for the cooler north. She has a belt of brown leather with a sturdy and distinctly mannish design. From it hangs a pouch and her belt knife, whatever else she has stowed there.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES:
Vanwe is an unusual character for an Elf, attributable to both her parentage and how she was raised.

She is decidedly wary of strangers, a product of her upbringing. She has a keen intellect and a thoughtful demeanour. She can be withdrawn and shy, but once she warms to a person she is generally of good cheer. Vanwe is a little unsure of herself and has learnt that meekness can work to her advantage.

She is slow to trust, tends to underestimate herself and expects cruelty from other which she blames upon herself.

However, if nothing else Vanwe has the remarkable ability to survive most things. She is tenacious and when she believes she is cornered she is fierce. She has a natural affinity for music, inherited from her father. Like her mother, Vanwe is able to sense what cannot be seen. In her, this emerges as an ability to heal. She can sense injury and illness as “wrongness” and can manipulate it back to the way it seems it should be. This sensitivity is something she has inherited from her mother and her distant relative, Galadriel.

Vanwe often carves wood as an outlet for her anxiety and distress, finding the shapes she senses within them and setting them free, another example of her abilities. She has a love of beauty and peace. Vanwe is a skilled observer, quiet and fleet footed. Nimble and flexible, Vanwe can earn a living in a number of ways as she is quick to learn.

She is not criminally inclined in a general, but survival sometimes necessitates petty theft that plagues her with guilt even if it does fill her stomach. She can make a good living on the docks and streets with thievery, but this is a risky lifestyle for a lone young Elven woman and so she will exhaust other options first before resorting to theft. She has an aversion to authority that is hard to shake and very much prefers to slip into and out of places unnoticed as a general rule.

HISTORY:

Vanwe is the daughter of the infamous Naiore Dannan. Her mother was of extraordinary beauty and ability, related by birth to the mighty Elvenwise Queen Galadriel. Yet, Naiore chose instead a path of darkness that shamed and horrified her people and terrorized those she came to prey upon. Vanwe is the result of a nefarious union between her mother and the bard she had been betrothed to prior to her betrayal of her people. Menecin had never accepted Naiore’s choice in his heart and had pursued her through the years both in an effort to curtail Naiore’s activities and prove to himself that the woman he loved was not malevolent and twisted.
What came of that is not known to Vanwe, only that Naiore fell pregnant with Menecin’s child.

The Terror of Mordor for reasons known only to herself decided to bear the child and so Vanwe was born. Wanted in Gondor, Rohan, Mirkwood, Lothlorien, Rivendell, Hollin and the Shire, Naiore fled south into the heartlands of her chosen Master. In Harad where she had preyed unstoppable upon the people, Naiore delivered Vanwe in a small and isolated village, remote from the North and also Mordor. She remained long enough to instill such terror in the villagers so as not to dispose of her daughter and then vanished. Vanwe was abandoned without explanation once her mother was certain Vanwe would not arise in the future to trouble her. Her mother saw her as a potential threat and she never considered her daughter as a possible ally.

Vanwe was not welcomed by the villagers. Elven and the daughter of such a feared creature, she was treated with suspicion and resentment. The villagers saw he as some kind of demon spawn. She represented everything they feared and loathed of the north, of murdering Elves and of Mordor. Vanwe's differences from the children of the village were marked.

This only reinforced the chasm between her the people around her. Yet the possibility of Naiore returning to wreak her vengeance upon them was more terrifying than the quiet and sweet natured Elven child. In her early years, before she understood just how cruel people could be to that which they did not understand, Vanwe was given to laughter. This soon faded as she grew older.

Vanwe was cared for, in a fashion, collectively by the village. It was far from a happy childhood. At best she was isolated, alienated and feared. At worst, she was hated as the scion of evil and was the village’s scape goat for any and every disaster that beset them. Lest she exploit their weakness, Vanwe was treated with harsh discipline.

Being strong and clever, Vanwe soon proved of some use to the village. She readily took to the work given her, eager to earn some regard or reprieve. She was trusted so far as to tend to the animals. Life in Harad under the yoke of Mordor is harsh. Outsiders, especially possibly malevolent ones, were a threat no village wished no matter how beautiful the child. When visitors came, she was hidden away. Vanwe was excluded from celebrations and all meals. She ate alone, worked alone, with the exception of those instances where she had somehow come to the attention of the villagers through misfortune or misadventure.

She was seen as a possible bad luck omen by the superstitious villagers. Illness or untimely death in the village was also her doing. Her emerging abilities only further alienated her and inspired further mistrust. Mordor had been instilling in the people of Harad myth and lies about the people of the North, particularly Elves, for generations. Naiore had been the principle agent of that fear campaign, and her daughter paid a costly price. Yet it was the only home she knew, and so Vanwe remained.

As the years rolled past, Vanwe found the fragmented yet vivid memories from early childhood that were empty and devoid of a mother or father did not fade. Like all Elves, she lived them when she slept. An innate curiosity about her own roots grew within her. For a long while, Vanwe spoke to no one of her desire to know more about her origins. When at last she ventured a question, she was hurried into an emergency Village Council and stood before the Village Elders. It was then that she learnt of the terrible woman that was her mother. To the villagers, Naiore was akin to a demon and they saw her reaching for her terrible doom.

Vanwe emerged from that grueling night with their stories, fantastic and seemingly improbable, spinning in her mind, torn and bruised. The Villagers, concerned that Vanwe’s approach to maturity over 100 years would bring her mother back, prompted the fearful re-telling of tales about her mother, some were accurate and some had accrued embroidering of details.

For Vanwe, the shame was an intense pain that haunted her every step. No one could tell of her father, and her questions only grew in number. She grew steadily more determined to get to the bottom of it all, and come to know the truth of both her mother and her father.

When the spring celebration of a good season came to the Village, Vanwe slipped free amidst the bustle as the Villager’s got on with their annual celebrations. It was the year 3021 T.A. Young by elven standards and poorly experienced, Vanwe’s first months of freedom were both terrifying and dangerous. She emerged from the perils of innocence and a hard road in one piece mainly by the grace of providence and her sharp wits. She always learnt her lesson quickly.

By chance or design, Vanwe gravitated towards to coast. By sheer good fortune and determination, she survived the waste of Harad and came to Umbar, where she picked up the trail of her mother. She found employment, shelter and food by whatever means necessary. It was a precarious existence, but it was free of the village. She resolved never to return that hell again.

Vanwe was becoming adept at mastering her environment to varying levels of control. On the coast and particularly in the docks of Harondor, Vanwe excelled in survival. She slowly made her way north, earning passage on a ship to Dol Amroth. Quite unaware she was in the original homeland of both her parents, whom hailed from the Bay of Belfalas, Vanwe set about searching out any little thing she could of them. It was not long before she realized that it was not only the villagers that loathed and feared her mother’s name. Vanwe spent some time in custody, suspected of being Naiore. It left an indelible impression upon her, her new freedom replaced by dank cells and bars.

Across Gondor she drifted and then through Rohan, a land that had particularly cruel experiences with Naiore Dannan. Vanwe learnt to be more circumspect and cautious with her inquiries. However, she asked a wrong question of the wrong person and it brought her to the attention of the Riddermark. The experience taught Vanwe that she may as well be her mother by the time she wiggled free of the mess. Her appearance only worked against her. With a now strong aversion to soldiers, warriors, lords, bailiffs and any other possible authority figure including the Village Elder, Vanwe continued to drift north on the scant trail left by her mother.

She slowly gathered information on Naiore and Menecin. Rumors conflict, suggesting that one or both are dead and simultaneously alive and in hiding. Where and from what depended on who she spoke to. It is a frustrating puzzle, and Vanwe is not helped by the fact that she feels it necessary to mostly avoid the lands her mother is still wanted and hunted in. In those lands, particularly those of Lothlorien and Rivendell, a young Elven maiden cast adrift in the wide world could learn much. It is precisely those places that Vanwe assiduously avoids.

The recognises the latent threat in Rangers as she moves further north, another peril to navigate. She also fears that the village are hunting her. Out of place in the world of Men, strangely odd to her own kindred and treated as most Elves are by most Dwarves, she moves on the ebb and flow of the current of the mortal lands.

She strives ever to learn but it is the haphazard and unpredictable manner of her circumstances, tossed hither and thither, that is perhaps her undoing. She is terrified of the very people that could aid her and show her the place that is hers in the world.

_____________________________________________

Elora's post for Vanwe

… The water dripped in a regular ceaseless rhythm throughout the day, the night and the day. It was broken up by the scratching of rats in the straw, perhaps a wet and hacking cough nearby or a croaked song that had taken possession of a man’s voice and raised it like a tattered flag of insanity against the reality of the bars. Torchlight flickered fittfully against slick and dark stones as through the flames resented their presence, free as they were from the bars but locked in damp darkness. They would come by regularly, sometimes relighting torches that had rebelled and gone out. Some brought a hard bread that was passed through the bars. That marked the beginning of another day. Sometimes it was water. That marked the night. It was race to claim bread or water before the rats did.

In that bleakness, a spider spun a silken web in the far corner of her cell. The strands caught the intermittent torch light, tiny gems caught in the web to dazzle unwary observers. It would float in the icy blast of wind that raced down the passage every time the outer main door would open. Then the sound of boots would start, counter tempo to the dripping water. There had been a lot of boots on the stone one morning after the bred had been pushed through the bars. The tiny jewels in the spider’s web became fiery with torch light that they had brought with them. She remembered that. It was beautiful, even if everything else was not and she had smiled faintly in that grimness to behold it.

The men had golden hair, like hers in many respects and yet not. It fell thickly around their shoulders, sometimes braided. Her own was a more delicate shade, lighter in weight and smoother in texture. Some clutched helms under their arms. Their torches glinted off mail. It was not as fair as the spider’s web. She remembered a saying as she took in their grim presence. Silk was stronger than steel. She looked into their faces and wondered about that.

One of them had produced a large iron circle. Many keys jangled discordantly from it. He fitted one to the lock at her bars. The others stepped back, hands tightening around sword hilts that jutted from their belt encircled hips. She looked back up at the spider’s web as the door creaked in protest at its opening. Two men stepped through.

“On your feet,” one roughly ordered in Westron. He glowered at her. She did as she was told.
“We need more light,” the other one spat over his shoulder. Men slowly stepped closer to the bars. They held their torches out, relucant to cast light on those within. She was struck by the realisation that they did not really want to see what they thought they were going to.

“Move but a muscle and you die,” intoned the man who had first spoke. She believed him. The other renewed his grip on his hilt, swallowed hard and stepped forward. He tipped her chin up, his fingers hard and rough against her skin. She stared blankly ahead, not daring to breathe. She heard movement, the sound of paper being folded.

“She is reported as claiming her name to be Vanwe,” he said. Doubt was in his voice, tempered also by suspicion and a dangerous anger that could flare brighter than any torch at any moment. Vanwe could smell it. She knew its scent well.
“Perhaps it is so, Farald. Look at her,” urged the man who held her chin so tightly.

“I’ve seen that face often enough,” the other replied heavily. She heard the paper bunch in his fist.
“Then by what sorcery did she achieve this?”

She saw two faces crowd her vision. They peered at her in silence. One shook his head as the other released her chin. She sagged back at the sudden change in balance, recovering quickly. A curse hissed in the silence, and somewhere else someone laughed blindly to fill the hole that insanity left in his mind.

“Silence,” roared one of the men in her cell. He cast her another glance. She lowered her eyes and mentally withdrew. If the anger came now, it was best she was not here. She knew what that glance meant. It was best if she was far away when it started. It was easier.

“It is not her Farald,” the other said.
“You had best hope that it is not,” Farald spat. He turned on his boot heel and stalked from her cell.

“What about her,” a man called after him.
“She can go. If I find her again, she’ll not fare so well. Rohan has had more than it’s share of the wider world and it’s Elves.” His voice floated back down behind him. There was a blast of air as the main door was opened. The men followed him, boot steps filling the prison's sagging emptiness once more. One remained by the open door to her cell.

“I would be swift, were I you. This is no place to dawdle with the doom of Rohan on your head,” he said. He walked away, a slow and measured tread. She watched him open the main door and pull his helm on. he had reports to make. Naiore Dannan was not in custody as they had thought. Those who already readied the gallows would have to wait a little longer. After 12 years and centuries of suffering, a little longer was both an instant and an eternity.

Vanwe ran then, the wind at her heels. She ran running fast, past grass and trees and village. Faster and faster, away from Rohan who nearly hanged her in mistake. Away from Umbar and the slave galleys where soldiers had nearly sold her when their error in her identity was known. North, where her mother had gone it was said and perhaps where her father was buried. Mirkwood, loomed ahead of her. It would be an arduous task to avoid those within it…

“Come Vanwe, the horses are missing you and will not take their breakfast!”

She groggily pushed herself up and out of her bed and dreams. Morning light shone through the open hay doors in a warm puddle. Pulling her dress over her head, Vanwe climbed down the ladder from the stable loft as the Deruvin chuckled good naturedly outside in a giddying contrast to her recently left dreams and rememberances. She pushed open the stable doors, stretching as she did so, and turned back to see to the horses. Some whickered at her as if the innkeeper had spoken truly. Vanwe smiled quietly and soon had the stable’s guests on their way to the day pasture.

She returned to an empty stable, collected rake, shovel, buckets and broom and began the morning’s work. Soon, the spider that sat in one of the many webs in the stable’s rafters had her song to keep her company. Vanwe hummed it, a lilting southern melody as she worked. It was odd, to have fled Rohan only to finish here, tending horses of all creatures. In the sunlight the cold memory faded a little and her song picked up strength. The spider caught the early morning rays in its web to lure and bewilder wandering breakfasts, lunches and suppers as the Elf worked below.

Her thoughts wandered. What would the day bring? Would she be any closer to what she sought? That was an interesting question. What did she seek? Sometimes she thought it was peace and freedom, but then there would be neither without knowing of her parents. She had accepted that fate long ago now. As she swept and raked, her song shifted to a more merry melody.

Would the Ranger return today? He had said he would return and wished to speak with her. She was unwise to seek his company, for Rangers had proved as perilious as the soldiers of Gondor and the Riddermark of Rohan. Still he had spoken gently and did lay upon her shoulders the crimes of her mother. He did looked at her and did not see only her mother's face. He had given her the name of a star.

Vanwe's song was ended by a call from the Inn.

"Vanwe, hurry! Cook's wanting to know why you haven't had breakfast and she'll accept no explanation from anyone else!"

She quickly stowed the broom, rake, shovel and now empty wheelbarrow and raced from the stables towards the inn with a contrite expression on her face. Cook was determined to have her resembling a hobbit in girth. Her golden hair streamed behind her as she crossed the intervening distance on long legs, rubbing her hands on whatever skirt material came to hand hastily.

Vanwe pushed open the door to the inn, spied Cook waiting with stern expression in place and entered. The inn door closed on her words. "I was just seeing to the horses!"

"Those horses eat better than you do, missy! I expect an Elf to have more sense than a herd of shaggy ponies and mismatched horses."

_____________________________________________

[ August 07, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[ August 10, 2003: Message edited by: Elora ]

[ August 10, 2003: Message edited by: Elora ]

Ealasaid · 07-26-2003, 07:14 AM

Elora - I take it that you will also be writing Menecin, then? In all likelihood, he would not be entering the storyline until we get closer to Rivendell. The main action needs to center around the characters from the inn.

Also, we need to start the action from the inn, picking up from where things currently stand. That will serve as our starting point. We can make some minor changes as needed, but, since this is not exclusively the story of Naiore & Vanwe, it would be the most logical place to start.

You can refer to your characters' journey northward in flashback as much as you like.

Here are where things currently stand:

Vanwe is an employee in the stables at the Inn (whichever one we use). She has been there some weeks.

Naiore has just arrived near the inn. She is concealed in the trees just off the inn grounds.

Lespheria & Amandur are guests at the inn. Amandur suspects Naiore's presence in the region but is not aware of her proximity. They are preparing to depart on business of their own.

Kaldir stables his horse at the inn, but does not have a room there. He is close on Vanwe's back, intending to capture her & return her to her captors in the south. He senses the presence of Naiore, but is not sure of her identity. He would like to either catch or kill Naiore (he's not particular) for both personal and mercenary reasons.

Hanasian has not yet returned from Bree, where he went on the request of Benia. Like Kaldir, he stables his horse at the inn, but does not maintain a room there. He, too, is interested in capturing Naiore, but is not yet aware of her presence in the vicinity of the inn.

Benia has been captured by Kaldir and lies bound in the basement of an abandoned blacksmith shop nearby. For the purposes of the game, I will change her broken ankle to a sprain so that she will be more mobile more quickly. She is unaware of the presence of Naiore.

Gilly has taken up Benia's father's sword and gone in search of Benia. She is currently following Kaldir. Like Benia, she is unaware of the presence of Naiore.

Menecin is being held in the protection of Celeborn & the elves, currently off the stage of the inn.

Pio has offered to lift our posts directly out of the inn & place them in the Game Thread for us. I was thinking that that would probably work, except for the changes that would need to be made, e.g. Snowdog's name change, Benia's ankle, and names around the inn, etc. I will ask her what to do about edits, in the event we decide to use our inn posts in the game.

Thanks for the excellent Bios, Elora. Now, the rest of us need to get our Bios up. Once that has been done, we need to sort out where the action will go from where things currently stand.

[ July 26, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaid ]

Ealasaid · 07-26-2003, 07:33 AM

For additional characters open to other writers, how's this?

2 Rangers to travel with Hanasian

2 Shady Underworld Types to take up with Naiore, both to serve her & (they hope) turn on her for their own gain

Elrond's sons & Celeborn can figure in the storyline & be present, just not as central characters. I can see Menecin having interactions with them, as well as the others, particularly Lespheria, Amandur, or Hanasian, as the action gets to Rivendell.

How does that sound?

Nerindel · 07-26-2003, 07:58 AM

Wow

Everyone this is great [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Léspheria will leave without Amandur, she will wish him to keep a watchful eye on Vanwe, but she will not go far when a messenger will intercept her with a message from her brother, telling her to stay and help Amandur. which she will do reluctantly of course.

I will try to get my bio's up Tomorrow. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

10-08-2003, 12:11 PM	#3
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	I totally agree with you Hilde, about the rangers tracking in the dark...even Aragorn didn't want to do that. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] About Vanwe...Elora, I know this is your character, but may I offer a suggestion? It appears that she is gaining strength. When people are desperately determined to do something, it seems as if they find like an inner strength or something (that sounds really hokey-pokey there, but I'm thinking right now of the chase of Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli). That's my suggestion. __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry.

10-08-2003, 03:04 PM	#5
Elora Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kalrienmar Posts: 402	All valid points. Of course, to get Vanwe out of the house, Barrold needs to get there and spirit her away before Rangers show up. As I understand it, Rangers already observe the house, so therefore there'll need to be some further alterations. Here is my own question. If Rangers don't like to track in the dark, why would they locate a concealed cellar in the dark? Seems to plausible that they might not. Barrold has used this cellar in past for his activities. It is concealed, but not indetectible in daylight. Certainly, Vanwe is in no condition to escape. She's bound hand and foot and exceptionally weak. She won't be going very far under her own management. Barrold will certainly encounter Avanill in the morning. As that character is esconced at the inn right now, that seems to me to be the best course to take to bring that character into the thick of things. Hilde, concerning Vanwe, I take a somewhat different view. I can appreciate your concern and have no desire to engage in cliches with my own characters. We're of one mind there. Vanwe is not getting stronger. Rather, her character is becoming more defined. Up to now, she's been somewhat indistinct. What can she do? Why is Naiore so concerned about her abilities? My intentions for Vanwe is to make her similiar in some respects to her mother and father, but make different choices. Vanwe's uncanny healing ability is rooted in the same talents as her mother's sensativities. Naiore choses to use her in violent and destructive ways, Vanwe does not. For Vanwe to emerge as something more than a victim character, a cliche I wish to avoid, her abilities do have to start to come to the fore. So, Vanwe's terrified reach, crude as it was, is the beginning. That served three purposes. First, it helped me reveal something more about Vanwe. Secondly, it gave Lespheria something to sense apart from Naiore and confirm Vanwe's survival thus far. Third, it was impetus for the Rangers to do more than sit at the inn and discuss things. I doubt those characters would sit whilst the hunt was afoot, be it night or dark. So, rest assured, Vanwe is not developing into some superhero, multipowered character. But neither shall she be a passive victim. Vanwe's tendancy to underestimate herself is her main downfall. The sooner she uncovers her resources and begins to use them, the sooner shall she stand on her own feet. One final note, I had Vanwe's surge crude and grasping as Vanwe has had no training for her sensativities. Without so much as an Elven role model and the active and violent repression of her abilities by the villagers, her skill and contol is rough and she feels reluctant to ever use her sensativities. It is a thing of shame, corruption and fear for her, given her childhood. That sort of baggage is not easily overthrown on account of one, albiet very traumatic, experience. So therein is a natural break to any tendancy for Vanwe to morph into something supernatural. __________________ Characters: Rosmarin: Lady of Cardolan; Lochared: Vagabond of Dunland; Simra: Daughter of Khand; Naiore: Lady of the Sweet Swan; Menecin: Bard of the Singing Seas; Vanwe: Lost Maiden; Ronnan: Lord of Thieves; and, Uien of the Twilight

10-08-2003, 05:53 PM	#10
Elora Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kalrienmar Posts: 402	Hilde, I'm not going to venture an opinion. Between Vanwe being either too powerful or too stagnant, seems I can't get it right. So, it's up to you Ranger writer folk to figure out what you want to do and let me know. __________________ Characters: Rosmarin: Lady of Cardolan; Lochared: Vagabond of Dunland; Simra: Daughter of Khand; Naiore: Lady of the Sweet Swan; Menecin: Bard of the Singing Seas; Vanwe: Lost Maiden; Ronnan: Lord of Thieves; and, Uien of the Twilight

10-08-2003, 06:28 PM	#12
Elora Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kalrienmar Posts: 402	If that's the final word, that's fine by me. I will wait on posting anything for a few hours yet. __________________ Characters: Rosmarin: Lady of Cardolan; Lochared: Vagabond of Dunland; Simra: Daughter of Khand; Naiore: Lady of the Sweet Swan; Menecin: Bard of the Singing Seas; Vanwe: Lost Maiden; Ronnan: Lord of Thieves; and, Uien of the Twilight

10-08-2003, 06:56 PM	#13
Nerindel Spirited Weaver of Fates Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: In an endless sea of dreams! Posts: 827	ok, I have just deleted what I was going to suggest, but it was pretty much the same as what Ealasaide has just posted [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] just one edit Amandur and Léspheria are searching the south side of town [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] Also Lésperia has seen Kaldir and his prisoners in this Rpg and already suspects him of hunting Naiore and Vanwe! Anyway great job Ealasaide that plan sounds good to me [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ "Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live" ~ Mark Twain.

10-08-2003, 09:32 AM	#1
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	Maybe we should have Vanwe and Barrold already gone somehow, if that would work. Because right now, it just seems to me that if the Rangers don't find that cellar and are so easily fooled by that Barrold, that would just make them all dunces. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this just seems so unranger-like to me. Cellars usually have dirt floors, I'm sure there would be some kind of track (but I could be wrong, I'm not a ranger...just some poor girl from Mundania). Or maybe Elora can somehow have Vanwe creep out and run right into Barrold again, or maybe even her mother, to create a little suspense in the story. Or have her slip out, have Barrold show up at the hourse, find her gone and then he has to deal with the rangers, and maybe the other bad guy (Everdawn's character) can run into Vanwe. This might create a little suspense for the reader as well (What will happen to Vanwe?). These are all just my thoughts on the matter and I don't know if they are good or not. Edit: I forgot that Vanwe is tied up, but I'm sure that a pice of broken pottery could cut the ropes, or even her little carving knife if she still has it. [ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Imladris ] __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry.

10-08-2003, 11:46 AM	#2
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	If Vanwe were able to get away and Avanill catch her (in her current state) it would be a excellent opportunity for Avanill to get into the thick of things!. It does seem that she is in no condition to escape at the moment though. Nerindel & Ealasaide – A couple of questions…how would the rangers recognize Kaldir’s trail if they saw it unless they caught a glimpse of him as well? Should that be part of the plan? Otherwise they would have to go back and pick it up from where he was spotted. And would Benia & Gilly be with him? Also am I correct in that you are proposing that Dulrain, Maethor & Rauthain go after Naiore, and will or will not Léspheria & Amandur bump into Avanill & Barrold. en route to Tallas. I really don’t think it is plausible to have our rangers tracking in the woods at night. They are good but not super human! It be dark out dare! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

10-08-2003, 01:41 PM	#4
Ealasaide Shadow of Tyrn Gorthad Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Fencing Lyst Posts: 810	I find that I have to agree with Hilde & Imladris that we can't have the Rangers looking like idiots by not finding the basement or by letting themselves be fooled so easily by the likes of Barrold Ferney. Seems to me that the more Ferney tried to steer them away from an area, the more they would be inclined to search it! On that note, I think it would probably be best for Vanwe to be out of the house by the time the Rangers search it. As for the Rangers finding Kaldir's trail, I have no objection to their seeing him. By then he would probably have Gilly & Benia with him, so the sighting would have to be from a distance. Otherwise, what's to stop them from riding up & interfering? Or, maybe something else would be going on that would keep them from interfering with him at the time of the sighting. Either way, they would already know he was also on Naiore's trail.

10-08-2003, 05:49 PM	#9
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	I am working on the assumption now that the ranger’s will have combed Bree and found nothing (If Elora wants to have some rangers around Barrold’s for Vanwe to hear let us know, also if they should mention Naiore or not). By the time they meet up it could be daybreak. That give Barrold time to get Vanwe out of there and Kaldir time to interact with his folk. The rangers can find Barrold’s House and tracks when Dulrain shows up with its location in the early morning. Amandur & Lespheria can had out on there path to Tallas at the same time. Is this correct? PS About the cellar, very simple, if the floor is wood there is a cellar, if it is dirt there is not. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Please excuse me but I haven't had a chance to read Elora's last post as we cross posted, (but did see my name mentioned curiously enough). I will look at it more length when time permits. Adieu! [ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

10-08-2003, 06:17 PM	#11
Ealasaide Shadow of Tyrn Gorthad Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Fencing Lyst Posts: 810	Okay, everybody, let's take a deep breath and move this puppy forward! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Here's where we are now: Kaldir is on his way back to his camp where Gilly & Benia are held. Barrold Ferney has just re-entered Bree by the west gate. Toby Longholes is outside Bree's west gate, having avoided being caught by Kaldir. Naiore is holed up somewhere on Bree Hill. Amandur & Lespheria are searching northern Bree for signs of Naiore's wherabouts. Rauthain, Maethor, Dulrain, & Avanill are at the Prancing Pony. Vanwe is in Barrold's cellar/basement. *********************** Here's what needs to happen next: 1) Barrold needs to collect Vanwe & bring her to where Naiore waits. On the way, he will encounter Avanill, who has left the inn. 2) Dulrain catches Toby Longholes & takes him back to the Prancing Pony, where he is interrogated by the Rangers. They learn about Ferney's house at that time. 3) At dawn (or sometime therafter) the Rangers search the now deserted house. 4) Barrold & Avanill raid Tallas' supplies. 5) Somehow the Rangers find out about the raid. Suspecting Naiore, they go to investigate. 6) Naiore & company depart from Bree in the direction of Rivendell, as Naiore learns through Avanill that Menecin is in Rivendell. 7) Rauthain, Maethor, & Dulrain go after the trail of Barrold Ferney, et al, while Amandur & Lespheria try to find Tallas, with the intent of rejoining the others later. 8) Kaldir having returned to his camp & organized his group, takes off with Gilly & Benia on Naiore's trail, having found it at one of the places that Barrold has used in the past to hide fugitives. 9) The Rangers discover that someone is ahead of them on the trail. They can assume it would be Kaldir since they know he is in the area & interested in catching Naiore. 10) THEY ALL LEAVE BREE. ************************** Unless anyone has any SERIOUS objections, I think that is how we should proceed. Please, everyone, let's try to work together & quit quibbling so much over details, eh? This is a team project here. Let's try to open it up a bit & give everyone a little room to run!

10-08-2003, 07:03 PM	#14
Imladris Tears of the Phoenix Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby. Posts: 1,453	My post was offered as helpful criticism to make this game better. I am not trying to control Vanwe (I never claimed I was, and I don't want to); I am not trying to control this game. I offered my opinion: this is what I thought a Discussion Thread was for. I highly resent the sarcastic comments that you wrote, Elora, as you were twisting my words and putting your own in my mouth. I was merely pointing out inconsistancies. I am not an idiot, and unfortunately I said some things that were exaggerated to make a point. Of course I know that Vanwe has abilities -- everybody has abilities: that is a given. I never said you should kill Vanwe. I never implied that she should be killed. I am well aquainted with the story of this game and with Vanwe because I took three days to read The Green Dragon Inn Part 4, starting on page two, and I read until I entered Green Dragon Inn Part 5 and Gilly disappeared. I know that elves don't "read" people in the sense you think I mean. What you think I mean is a form of telepathy: that's Star Trek. This is Middle-earth. You took what I meant too literally. When I wrote my post, I took what I knew about Vanwe and tried to nicely and politely point out where I thought she was acting contrary to her character. That was all this was about. I did not intend for this to become an attack on your character. This was supposed to be positive and helpful criticism. Now I'm being flamed for it. To me, being conscious means being awake, which it seems Vanwe was in her last post. Hence my misunderstanding. I guess we have different definitions on being "conscious." I did not mean permanent escape. I suggested that she could run into her mother, Barrold, or Avanill. That doesn't sound like escape to me. Sounds more like out of the frying pan and into the fire. What do you think I am? We are all "authors" here to a story. An author knows what's going to happen. I was talking about from a reader's perspective, which I mentioned in my post. This is not my game. I never claimed it was. I was making suggestions, I was trying to approach a problem from a different angle. Whatever you guys decided to do was fine by me. I just thought I'd add my opinions first and let the game owners make the final decision. I was trying to make it so that everybody could be kept in character, and at the same time pointing out things that didn't make much sense. When I write, I have somebody read my stories to see if there are any inconsitancies or to see if something is not clear. If they have a problem, I fix it. That was all I was doing with Vanwe. However, you are clearly upset with my post. I was trying to be friendly and positive. I did not mean to attack your character. You were free to disregard my suggestions, but instead you have decided to flame me for them. That is fine. If you want me to resign, you can have Naiore murder Maethor. There is a saying that says that truth hurts. That goes for criticism as well. __________________ I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. I'm your huckleberry.

10-08-2003, 07:06 PM	#15
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	While it’s nice to have a game plan for your RPG, it is more of a guideline than a fiat. When you subscribe to an outline too closely, it becomes as if you are backfilling in the story with your posts. You are writing your characters, in other words, to conform to the storyline, and not letting the storyline develop in a natural way from the way each player plays their character. Sometimes it is fun to throw a twist into the game and let the other players react to it, without discussing all the ins and outs of it. For example: Vanwe is weak and tied up. And in a location where the Rangers could find her if they looked thoroughly. Why can’t one of them ‘find’ her? Can you effect a rescue of sorts and let Naiore and her Henchmen react to the rescue in a way which is in character for Naiore and her baddies. The rangers probably can’t take Vanwe far – since she is in a weakened state. Let Naiore have the opportunity to snatch her back. This would spice the game up – all the writers would write independently in a sense. Someone would take the lead for the rangers and start it off, give each other enough room to hook into the situation, without wrapping the details of the action in each scene up so thoroughly. Throw hooks out to each other that another writer can latch onto with their character and take the action from there. This is just an example of writing in a little more free-style form, and still accomplishing a goal; i.e., in this part of the Game – Naiore would at the end, have Vanwe, but the Rangers would have made her work a little harder for her prey. As a group, you should, however, work in the way that is most comfortable for you. _________________________________ On another note, it is best to concern yourself with the development of your own character and how he/she is going to react in a particular scene that is taking place. Unless another writer is stepping over the boundaries you have defined as comfortable for your own character, it is best if you simply have your character take in what the other character is doing and write your own character’s action with it in mind. In other words – your character doesn’t know what is going on in the mind of the other character or what potentials the writer has set up for him/her – your character only knows what is seen, heard, etc of the other character, either from present or past direct experience or things that other characters have told him/her. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

10-08-2003, 07:57 PM	#17
Elora Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kalrienmar Posts: 402	Thanks for the suggestion Pio. EDIT: In the interests of resolution, I am taking the opportunity to edit. I am utterly at a loss as to how I have personally attacked another's intelligence, character, personality, or contributions. I shall make a decision as to whether I continue with this RP tomorrow. Imladris: noticed your earlier edit at the top of the page. Vanwe doesn't have her knife, it was left behind with her pouch when her worn belt snapped upon being captured. The two Rangers that had found her prints in the trees discovered this at that time. The cellar is devoid of sharp objects. Even had she a key to open the lock, she would need to be conscious to use it. Right now, Vanwe is definately not conscious and given the terrible nature of the elixir given to her will not be conscious for some hours yet. [ October 08, 2003: Message edited by: Elora ] __________________ Characters: Rosmarin: Lady of Cardolan; Lochared: Vagabond of Dunland; Simra: Daughter of Khand; Naiore: Lady of the Sweet Swan; Menecin: Bard of the Singing Seas; Vanwe: Lost Maiden; Ronnan: Lord of Thieves; and, Uien of the Twilight

10-08-2003, 08:10 PM	#18
Ealasaide Shadow of Tyrn Gorthad Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: The Fencing Lyst Posts: 810	Elora - your characters are essential to the continuance of this game. If you drop out, the game will close. I am working hard to remedy this situation & I ask that everyone please take a deep breath and not make any rash decisions. This could still be an excellent game and fulfill the promise it showed in the planning phase and the posts that have gone up so far. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] We have come too far and worked too hard to see it implode like this.

10-09-2003, 12:41 AM	#19
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Discussion Thread Part 2 can be found HERE. [ October 10, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

07-23-2003, 11:25 PM	#20
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	The Lingering Darkness Planning/Discussion Thread * FIRST POST FOR THE IN-PLAY RPG DISCUSSION THREAD IS AT POST #144 * ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This thread is being opened for the purposes of planning an RPG, which has grown out of a storyline developed in the Green Dragon Inn. Its use is restricted to these writers for now: Ealasaid Elora Hilde Bracegirdle Nerindel Snowdog No other writers may use this thread with the exception of the Shire Moderators. All posts by those other than those listed above will be deleted Last edited by piosenniel; 08-09-2005 at 11:39 AM.

07-23-2003, 11:26 PM	#22
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Elora and Snowdog, since you have also participated in one Shire game, I can also list you as co-founders of the game, provided you feel you can meet the above requirements. Ealasaid and Nerindel will remain the main game owners and be responsible for the decisions made, though they would of course consult you for your input. Hilde, since this will be your first Shire game, you would be eligible to be an owner in a following game. Why you might want to be considered a co-owner in this game: Writers who wish at some time to play in an actual RPG in Rohan, must first play in at least one Shire game, and then succesfully complete a game as an owner/founder in the Shire to be considered eligible to play in Rohan. This, of course, does not include posting at the White Horse Inn, which you may do at the discretion of the Rohan moderator, Bethberry. [ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

07-24-2003, 01:46 AM	#24
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	Here is a suggestion for the game presented by Elora. Please note my comments in Bold Caps: _____________________________________________ Elora’s suggestions: Here's the rough outline I mentioned. Very much subject to suggestion, revision and perhaps complete re-work (I am known to obliterate much of my work if I decide it's not up to scratch)... Naiore fled Mordor in the ruin that followed Sauron's downfall at the end of the 3rd Age. Unable to take ship to Valinor (Cirdan would likely eviscerate her upon sight, I daresay, making the oceans an altogether risky form of travel), she is trapped within Middle-Earth. Naiore's identity is a closely guarded secret. Myths and horror stories circulate, commencing in proper at the Battle of Gladden Fields and growing and evolving through the Third Age. A very small circle know the reality of the person behind it. That select group is: Sauron, the White Council, Aragorn, those rare few of Naiore's kindred who live still and acknowledge that they know her (such is the shame upon her head that many do not - her parents included). There is much to mop up at the beginning of the Fourth Age, cities to re-build, countries as well. Naiore disappears in the chaos and goes to ground, knowing that the hunt will certainly follow and that she no longer can use Mordor as a protection. She is alone for the first time in her long life, and she knows it (and loathes those that brought this to her - never her fault). Her haunts in the south of habit are being watched for any fugitives. This forces Naiore into a course of action not of her choosing, and enrages her as control shifts from her grasp. Her hatred of the Free Peoples grows apace. Forced to move north, Naiore is forced back through now unopressed and hostile lands. Where she can, she uses what remnants of Mordor's networks survive to help her escape, and then destroys them herself to prevent them from betraying her. A chain of inexplicable deaths, some welcomed and some not (hidden operatives working for Mordor that no one suspected) starts to emerge. The authorities realize that someone of rank and authority, someone important, has escaped their net on Mordor, and they realize with dread just who it may be. As a precaution, Menecin is moved to Lothlorien so that should Naiore be indeed alive and active, he is protected from her desperate rage. HOW MUCH PROTECTION WILL LOTHLORIEN AFFORD, SINCE GALADRIEL WILL HAVE LEFT AT THE END OF THE THIRD AGE? Naiore, who despises aimless wandering and a general lack of organization, soon settles on a new project - the destruction of her people and those descended from Numenor. The other "rabble" (common Men, Dwarves and Hobbits) are beneath her concern and she's to leave them to their own devices. Naiore runs greater and greater risks, hunted and hunting, for there is nothing else for her than the ignominy of a life on the run (like an animal) or execution. Part of her wishes to force her people to execute her, for the sadness and grief in that act will cut as surely as her blades can. Vanwe, in the chaos of Harad now suddenly released from Mordor's oppression, escapes and follows rumours north in a way more highly placed hunters can't. Vanwe, as a vagabond, gets all sorts of information from all manner of footpads, as she moves in search of answers and her parents. Naiore reaches north, caught precariously between the Grey Havens and Cirdan, and Imladris and Elrond. Why she remains, though, is the untapped and untainted Shire. It's ripe for the picking, and Naiore is a woman with nothing to loose. THE SHIRE IS NOT RIPE FOR PICKING AT THE END OF THE WAR – IT IS UNDER THE PROTECTION OF THE HIGH KING, AND BECOMES A CLOSED COMMUNITY. YOU WILL NEED TO CONSIDER WHERE YOU CAN MOVE THE STORYLINE TO ACCOMMODATE THIS. Her hand, though, is held in the Shire – AGAIN, THIS WILL NEED TO BE CHANGED TO ANOTHER LOCATION by two discoveries. The first is the discovery that Vanwe has somehow followed her (a threat that needs to be dealt with). The second, through those that follow Vanwe, is that Menecin is in Lothlorien. Naiore uses her daughter to gain safe passage to Lothlorien. Vanwe is duped by the appearance of a kind and loving mother, the one she had wished for. Naiore's pursuers realise that Vanwe, an innocent, could die if Naiore is cornered. Naiore is successful in getting to Lothlorien, where Galadriel is waiting for her. There, Vanwe learns perhaps the saddest truth of her neglected life: Naiore cares not one whit for her. GALADRIEL LEAVES MIDDLE EARTH IN 3021 THIRD AGE – HER LEAVING, ALONG WITH THE OTHER RINGBEARERS IS THE HERALDING IN OF THE FOURTH AGE. I envisage a showdown, in which Naiore attempts to strike at the heart of Lothlorien and get at Menecin. Vanwe, destroyed, throws all caution to the wind and herself upon the uncertain kindness of those who wish to see Naiore stopped. Vanwe has not had a good experience with her own kin or Rangers in the past, and so for her it is a risk she takes for there is much suspicion as to Vanwe's character (implicated in her mother's escape from the Shire). AT THIS TIME, 4TH AGE, THERE WILL NOT BE MANY ELVES LEFT IN LOTHLORIEN – MANY WILL HAVE GONE WEST OR POSSIBLY TO ITHILIEN. Vanwe is surprised by the mercy of those she turns to, and Naiore is prevented from killing Menecin. Menecin and Vanwe reunite, Naiore slips free by the skin of her pearly teeth. The hunt is close behind, and perhaps with some poetic symmetry, Naiore is cornered on Gladden Fields attempting to elude her pursuers. This time, there is no marauding Black Army. She realizes that there is no escape, attempts to take as many out with her as she can. She dies in battle, fierce, unrepentant and uncowed, refusing to return in chains to the ignominy of a trial run by those she considers inferior to her. Vanwe is left with the tattered remains of her family, a people she does not know, no home to speak of and the uncertain promise of freedom and life free of evil (much like what awaits those who survived Sauron). Menecin, bereft, takes ship to Valinor, his daughter choosing to remain behind in mortal lands. __________________________________________________ _____ Now, assuming all this hasn't put you to sleep here's what I see. Naiore's involvement will be in the plot, and become more and more frequent as the plot develops. However, I see much more interesting developments in the characters and stories of those that hunt her. Why and how they hunt her. Menecin will only be a supporting character (a device to get Naiore back to Lothlorien and from there on a slippery steep, downward sliding free fall). The stories of Kaldir, Lespheria, Amandur, Silvanis, Benia (if you think she's involved) are starting to mesh together, and they are a fascinating blend of characters. I would use Vanwe as my chief character vehicle. Initially, most references to Naiore will be historical (accounts to her crimes in the past, perhaps from survivors or those who pursue her), memory based (again survivors, and her daughter), and briefly outlined so as to place her in relation to other characters. Occasionally, depending on what she's up to, I'd elaborate on what she's actually doing to shed some light on her complex nature (an evil Elf is not easily explained, e.g Maeglin). YES, I WOULD NEED TO SEE A FAIRLY WELL DRAWN ACCOUNT OF HER MOTIVATIONS – AND LET’S AVOID CALLING HER AN EVIL ELF Perhaps a hint that Vanwe or her hunters picked up would pin point Naiore in some way as being in some place. Not until they all reach the North would Naiore emerge more prominently, as until then she is in hiding (unhappily so - it's not fitting for a personage of noble blood and high rank in the competitive world of Mordor to skulk about like a starving wolf). CAN YOU PICK OUT FROM THIS STORYLINE PERHAPS ONE SEGMENT OF THE ACTION - PARE IT DOWN - SO THAT YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH A SET GOAL FOR YOUR GAME? THE WORKSHEET WILL BE YOUR MAP AND MINE OF HOW THE GAME WILL IN GENERAL DEVELOP – I AND THE OTHER PLAYERS WILL NEED TO SEE HOW YOU ARE PROCEEDING ON TO YOUR END DESTINATION/GOAL. THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM FOR DEVELOPMENT OF CHARACTER AND SUBPLOT WITHIN A GAME, BUT NONETHELESS IT MUST MOVE TOWARD A DEFINED END POINT. ALSO, THINKING AHEAD, IF YOU WISH, YOU CAN PROPOSE ANOTHER GAME SEGMENT ONCE THIS ONE IS ENDED WHICH CARRIES ON THE STORYLINE OR DEVELOPS IT IN ANOTHER DIRECTION. [ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ] __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

07-24-2003, 10:59 AM	#25
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	One last point I would like you to tuck in the back of your minds while your are planning the game: I see this game as driven primarily by the interactions of the planners' characters. Having said that, there should be room in the game for 2 or 3 other Shire writers to participate. You planners will, of course, determine what sort of characters you will need outside your own, and you will pick and choose the writers you want to play in your game. __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

07-24-2003, 11:01 AM	#26
piosenniel Desultory Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Pickin' flowers with Bill the Cat..... Posts: 7,779	*~~~~~~~~ Open for Planning ~~~~~~~~* __________________ Eldest, that’s what I am . . . I knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.

07-24-2003, 04:04 PM	#27
Ealasaid Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: under a large pile of dirt & gravel Posts: 193	Here are my thoughts on the direction the game should take: Since it is based on the characters and events we have all been writing about at the inn, we should concentrate on those characters and use the events that occurred around the inn as a springboard into the game itself. Of course, some changes would need to be made, such as the relocation of the inn scenes from the Green Dragon to the Prancing Pony (perhaps) for reasons already cited by Pio. Time period (i.e. when all this takes place) is another consideration. Naiore would serve as the catalyst. She is the common element that unites these people, and, I believe, she is more than capable of leading them on a wild chase. Also, we can't forget the plot possibilities of the hunted hunting the hunters and vice versa. There's a lot of room for intrigue! How does this sound? Naiore somehow takes up with Vanwe, either by capture or deception, and takes off for the south in search of Menecin with the others in hot pursuit. Kaldir, for one, would be after them for a multitude of reasons, both mercenary and personal. Benia and Gilly would be carried along by Kaldir, not exactly as prisoners, but not free to leave either. I will explain that part later. Lespheria and Amandur would also be on the trail, as would Silvanis. I see the scope of the game being Naiore's flight to the south, her failed attempt to reach Menecin, and her eventual come-uppance at the hands of one or more of her pursuers. I think we should try to limit outside involvement beyond the characters we have here (and that we add to fulfill our "other writer" requirements), not getting too involved with armies or seiges or big names like Galadriel or Aragorn.

07-24-2003, 05:34 PM	#28
Hilde Bracegirdle Relic of Wandering Days Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: You'll See Perpetual Change. Posts: 1,480	Perhaps, Naiore could feign a change of heart since she feels it unlikely that she will be able to go west. She might feel that she needs to reunite her “family” to save her own skin and make her look sincere. (Think Sauron after Melkor’s defeat). Or then again maybe she could be a bit repentant, but too proud or reluctant to admit it. This way one can focus on the internal dynamics without a lot of disruptive travel and the questions of who has horses and who doesn't. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Naiore could obtain Vanwe and be moving on to find Menecin. It could be fascinating to see the contrast of good and evil qualities in both Naiore and Kaldir, especially if the reader is kept undecided about each or possibly kept hoping for each one’s rehabilitation until the end. Just a thought. [ July 24, 2003: Message edited by: Hilde Bracegirdle ]

07-24-2003, 08:05 PM	#29
Ealasaid Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: under a large pile of dirt & gravel Posts: 193	I really like the whole good/evil angle within individuals in the story. I think Silvanis/Hanasian would also fall into that catagory since no one is really sure what his motivations are. Here are some of the additional character ideas I had: Gilly's husband Carl Banks, male, hobbit: realising his wife has been kidnapped in Bree, he takes off on her trail. He would be a few days behind the others as it would take him a few days to get the word & he would be leaving from the Shire. He might have another male hobbit traveling with him. Two or three shady characters to fall in with Naiore, or, more likely, who fall under her sway. Men, most likely, as "evil elves" are few and far between. They could be traveling with her and Vanwe at some point. *Vanwe's father Menecin. I don't know how we could work him in as a regular role, but its a thought.

07-24-2003, 08:13 PM	#30
Ealasaid Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: under a large pile of dirt & gravel Posts: 193	Hilde: by focusing on internal dynamics, would we be staying in the North? Around the area of Bree (for instance)? Also, just as a footnote, the question of horses is probably pretty minor. The way I see it, almost everyone has a horse, except Vanwe, Gilly, and Benia. Naiore, I don't know about, but with her track record I don't think she would have any trouble obtaining a horse or two if she wanted one. Same goes for Kaldir. He could probably get his hands on an additional horse for Gilly & Benia pretty easily. [ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaid ]

07-24-2003, 10:05 PM	#31
Nerindel Spirited Weaver of Fates Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: In an endless sea of dreams! Posts: 827	Hi, everyone [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Ealasaid that plot sounds good. I think going south would be to dangerous for Naiore, so would Rivendell not be a better place to hide Menecin as the remaining elves in Lorien went with Celeborn to Rivendell? Naiore may even try to use Léspheria to get into Rivendell as she once used Lespheria's mother, especially if she finds out her growing friendship with her daughter. but there again Lespheria's growing friendship may worry her as Lespheria could teach Vanwe things that Naiore would rather she didn't know? It could also be possible that Naiore will mistake Lespheria for her mother. I also think that we should do our bios and try to mesh our histories with Naiore together, it may help the plot to fall into place. what do you think? __________________ "Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live" ~ Mark Twain.

07-24-2003, 10:18 PM	#32
Ealasaid Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: under a large pile of dirt & gravel Posts: 193	Bios are an excellent idea! Also, good point about Rivendell over Lothlorien as the final destination. Not only does it fit well with Tolkein's timeline of postwar departures, etc, but it would also eliminate a good deal of - how did Hilde put it? - disruptive travel. [ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaid ]

07-25-2003, 04:27 AM	#34
Elora Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kalrienmar Posts: 402	Sorry for the delay in getting here. I'll leave my comments and notes until after I list some suggested additional roles. These are just what popped into my head and so throw them around, beat them up, pin them down as we all see fit. Wrestling, anyone? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Haradrim... perhaps a couple of men or women sent to bring Vanwe back before Naiore finds out the village let her escape comes in a wrath at their failure. "Underworld" characters, seedy ones: the sort that may know about Naiore and be prepared to rat on her for the right amount despite the obvious risk to their lives. This would facilitate those who hunt her obtaining information (including young Vanwe) Celeborn, who remained in Imladris with those who did not depart at the end of the 3rd Age. Thranduril is another possibility, as is Legolas and Gimli (who at this time are in Ithilien, which is so close to Naiore's land of birth - Belfalas) Elrond's sons Elladan and Elrohir, who elected to become of mortal kin (following in Elrond's brother's choice). They remained with the Rangers in Arnor. As I said, just some suggestions for additional characters for those who are looking to join our merry company. Now, as for my comments, here goes: Is the Shore ripe for the picking? I understand that it is under Elessar's protection. However, to Naiore's persepective that means little. She has no regard for king nor queen, and particularly hates those descended from Numenor, as Elessar is. For Naiore, the Shire represents a land largely untouched by the ravages of war that blighted the rest of Middle-earth through the 2nd and 3rd Ages. To bring to this "innocent" land where they are largely unaware of one such as she a measure of suffering would be a powerful temptation. In aiming for the Shire Naiore would come smack up against Imladris and the Dunedain of Arnor who enforce Elessar's protection. She'd naturally steer a wide berth of Imladris though, not keen on turning herself in for justice. So it seems Bree is a place where Naiore and Vanwe could intercept each other. It is a cross roads of sorts, and likely as far as even Naiore could get when hunted as she will be. In Bree, Naiore will be frustrated in moving further north without forces at her command to push the boundaries in her favour. News of Menecin's relatively close location in Imladris will distract her, and Vanwe will seem like the weapon to use on her new project. (Naiore needs projects, as it's the only thing that gives her life meaning and keeps her from utter despair). The question of Galadriel At the time I wrote the outline, I had not yet decided when exactly it would unfold. 4th Age certainly seems to best fit for characters and plot overall, so I have suggested a location and character change (Imladris and Celeborn) to reflect this. Showdown at the Imladris Corral It's necessary for Naiore to not suceed here in her intentions. With Elladan and Elrohir in the north along side the Dunedain, plus those that have come from the south to bring her down, Naiore will not linger long when her plans are foiled. It is that frustration that drives her into desperate flight and despair. She has no more projects, no capability for passage into Valinor and peace, and no peace in Middle-earth. What's more, she not a creature to renounce and admit she was wrong (a classic Noldorin trait of overweening pride that's led many astray). So, she'll run, realise that she has nowhere to go any more and stage her last fight. Where will Naiore's Last Stand be? Perhaps it's a little too neat and contrite, but I still like the idea of Naiore meeting her end at the Gladden Fields. That location has special significance for the character which will be clearer once I have her bio up. It's also a place where Men and Elves came together in terrible battle against the Shadow so long ago. This time, they will win. Naiore's character It's a sad and dark mix of some of the best and worst traits of the Noldor, with some inspiration from Saurman as well. She's not inherently evil, but she certainly became so over time. It's impossible for her not to become steeped in darkness after spending 2 Ages serving Sauron. It's Naiore's need for power and knowledge that drives her principally. That said, she's a disciplined character, well schooled and with a fascination for darker things. She's extraordinarily sensative to the emotional states of others. She's kin to Galadriel, who is sensative in other areas. Her fascination with fear, and her people's refusal to acknowledge the more basic motiviations within themselves is what prompted her to leave their "facade" behind and go to the one creature who would leave her free to learn all she could about fear, pain, suffering and grief. For her, Sauron was a natural choice. So, she fell prey to what she studied and darkness consumed her. She knew it, and revelled in it and the power it gave her, but it was not a perfect marriage. Naiore had never known true peace within herself as a result of her choices. It conflicts at a fundamental level with her Elven nature and she pays a heavy price for that. In that respect, she's similar to Saurman. Her innate difference in perspective to her peers and people spawns a chasm, like in Maeglin's case. Once snared by darkness, she cannot escape and comes over time to delude herself into thinking she does not want to. That's pride, the bane of the Noldor and Feanor in particular. So, Naiore's not evil, but she is capable of immense harm and darkness that emmanates largely from within her conflicted, damaged and isolated self. The thing with evil, though, is that it can be perpetrated by people who are not inherently evil. Evil is difficult to comprehend at the best of times, which is why this simplifcation of evil is as evil does occurs (in my opinion, at least). It's in that belief that stories of a demon, something inherently evil, who looks like an Elf, something assumed inherently good, spring up. Her bio will provide a clear explanation of her progression from socially isolated and curious to unrepentant servant of Sauron. Goals for the game: Naiore's goal will be to find peace, and the only way she can is on the swords of her foe. Humiliating as death will be, it will be immensely preferrable to suicide (not considered by Elves) or showing up to turn herself in to her people or Men. Besides, she'll get great pleasure in making those of the vaunted Free Peoples take an Elven woman's life, and in someway cast question over their high ideals (which she views with immense contempt). So for Naiore, she will move north as quickly as she can. At first she will be elimidating any lingering informants that could close the net on her. She'll also be hoping to start a new wave of terror in the Shire. She'll then change plans in view of Vanwe and Menecin and in doing so meet her end. Naiore will find Umbar is too dangerous for her with new management in town, pushing her north. Naiore will move through Belfalas, her home land, and possibly Ithilien and again move north as it will be too "hot" for her to remain. She'll drop by Dol Amroth, and perhaps be so bold as to venture into Elessar's city (undecided). Rohan is a stomping ground of hers, which will also prove too "hot", pushing her to get through Mirkwood and across Eriador to Bree. From there it will be to Imladris and perhaps back to he Gladden Fields. For Vanwe, her goal is to find some trace of family and survive the wreckage her mother makes of that to forge a life of her own away from the captivity of the village in the Haradwaithe. So, she'll trail her mother until they met up at Bree. Future RP's As Ealasaid has mentioned, this RP draws a number of characters together and will likely draw out possibilities for future RP's. From the point of view of my characters, Naiore's story ends with this one. The only way to move there is backwards. For example, Naiore's involvement in the Gladden Fields disaster of the 2nd Age. Menecin takes ship also, ending his tale, so again only retrospective possibilities are around for RP's. For example, how survived three separate encounters with Naiore (one resulted in Vanwe, one nearly killed him and the last killed her) after she had chosen to serve Sauron. As he studied under Maglor (being a bard), there's First Age RP possibilities there connected to Maglor. As for Vanwe, her life is just beginning in earnest at the end of this RP. How does she pick herself up and move forward? She remains in Middle-earth. Where does she go and what does she do? That's perhaps the most "un-written" character of the three. I'll post bios for all three soon. I'm working on an opening post too. The reason for all that homework is my impending absence. I'll be incommunicado from 7/29 to 8/8. So I'll have my first post done and sent to someone (probably Snowdog if that is OK by him) so my absence doesn't delay anybody else. Phew, what a mouthful of comments! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Elora ] __________________ Characters: Rosmarin: Lady of Cardolan; Lochared: Vagabond of Dunland; Simra: Daughter of Khand; Naiore: Lady of the Sweet Swan; Menecin: Bard of the Singing Seas; Vanwe: Lost Maiden; Ronnan: Lord of Thieves; and, Uien of the Twilight

07-25-2003, 04:34 PM	#35
Ealasaid Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: under a large pile of dirt & gravel Posts: 193	Okay...Thanks, Snowdog, for clearing up a couple of questions I had. Hanasian's motives (and name!) are pretty clear. With that scenario in mind, it would make sense to have him travelling with 2 additional Rangers. That's a good idea for additional characters. That way, the new writers won't be constricted too much by any of our pre-conceived notions. It would be good, too, if they had at least a passing knowledge of Kaldir, either from pre-war experience or having met him when he was bringing in fugitives. I, too, was worrying how to work in Benia's Bree connections and still have the Inn action take place at the Prancing Pony. Using the Forsaken Inn would solve that. I like it! Elora: thanks for the additional character suggestions! I would tend to stay away from using Celeborn or Elrond's sons as regular roles for writers because it would be difficult and constrictive for the writers. We could use those individuals as recurring figures who are present and figure in the action, but not as regular characters... kind of like carry-along characters, where anyone can manipulate them & use them as needed. Kaldir is there on behalf of the Haradrim who want Vanwe back. Having more Haradrim on her trail would seem kind of redundant. (Just my opinion.) But I do like the idea of the seedy Underworld characters. That's kind of fits in with my earlier suggestion of a couple of evil types who fall in under Naiore's influence. They could (maybe) try to suck up to her on one hand while trying to figure out a way to turn her in for the bounty on the other hand. How does that sound? As far as Naiore's & Vanwe's travels up from the south, it sounds interesting, but, if we start from the inn, they are already in the north. We need to carry the action forward from the Inn. [ July 25, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaid ]

07-25-2003, 08:16 PM	#36
Elora Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Kalrienmar Posts: 402	Good points Ealasaid! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] I rather like the idea of some treacherous underworld characters who are as ready to turn on Naiore as she is on them. There may be someone willing to take on a established character. As Celeborn and Elrond's sons were somewhat mysterious and not as elaborated upon by the great Professor, it would be possible for people to work within what character boundaries if they wish. However, it will be entirely workable for us to use such character as points of reference for those we are playing (recognisable non controlled entities) and perhaps preferrable to handle it this way. Referencing them at all will simply better tie this RP into Middle-earth events and locations. On location, where should we start this RP? A long and protracted journey north could be a little dull, unless we build action into that and character entry points for individuals who hail from throughout Middle-earth. Some alliances between characters may form, and perhaps change and evolve over time as it all unfolds. We could just as easily start closer to Bree, or thereabouts, and create the earlier journey as a backstory in our posts. __________________ Characters: Rosmarin: Lady of Cardolan; Lochared: Vagabond of Dunland; Simra: Daughter of Khand; Naiore: Lady of the Sweet Swan; Menecin: Bard of the Singing Seas; Vanwe: Lost Maiden; Ronnan: Lord of Thieves; and, Uien of the Twilight

07-26-2003, 07:14 AM	#38
Ealasaid Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: under a large pile of dirt & gravel Posts: 193	Elora - I take it that you will also be writing Menecin, then? In all likelihood, he would not be entering the storyline until we get closer to Rivendell. The main action needs to center around the characters from the inn. Also, we need to start the action from the inn, picking up from where things currently stand. That will serve as our starting point. We can make some minor changes as needed, but, since this is not exclusively the story of Naiore & Vanwe, it would be the most logical place to start. You can refer to your characters' journey northward in flashback as much as you like. Here are where things currently stand: Vanwe is an employee in the stables at the Inn (whichever one we use). She has been there some weeks. Naiore has just arrived near the inn. She is concealed in the trees just off the inn grounds. Lespheria & Amandur are guests at the inn. Amandur suspects Naiore's presence in the region but is not aware of her proximity. They are preparing to depart on business of their own. Kaldir stables his horse at the inn, but does not have a room there. He is close on Vanwe's back, intending to capture her & return her to her captors in the south. He senses the presence of Naiore, but is not sure of her identity. He would like to either catch or kill Naiore (he's not particular) for both personal and mercenary reasons. Hanasian has not yet returned from Bree, where he went on the request of Benia. Like Kaldir, he stables his horse at the inn, but does not maintain a room there. He, too, is interested in capturing Naiore, but is not yet aware of her presence in the vicinity of the inn. Benia has been captured by Kaldir and lies bound in the basement of an abandoned blacksmith shop nearby. For the purposes of the game, I will change her broken ankle to a sprain so that she will be more mobile more quickly. She is unaware of the presence of Naiore. Gilly has taken up Benia's father's sword and gone in search of Benia. She is currently following Kaldir. Like Benia, she is unaware of the presence of Naiore. Menecin is being held in the protection of Celeborn & the elves, currently off the stage of the inn. Pio has offered to lift our posts directly out of the inn & place them in the Game Thread for us. I was thinking that that would probably work, except for the changes that would need to be made, e.g. Snowdog's name change, Benia's ankle, and names around the inn, etc. I will ask her what to do about edits, in the event we decide to use our inn posts in the game. Thanks for the excellent Bios, Elora. Now, the rest of us need to get our Bios up. Once that has been done, we need to sort out where the action will go from where things currently stand. [ July 26, 2003: Message edited by: Ealasaid ]

07-26-2003, 07:33 AM	#39
Ealasaid Wight Join Date: May 2003 Location: under a large pile of dirt & gravel Posts: 193	For additional characters open to other writers, how's this? 2 Rangers to travel with Hanasian 2 Shady Underworld Types to take up with Naiore, both to serve her & (they hope) turn on her for their own gain Elrond's sons & Celeborn can figure in the storyline & be present, just not as central characters. I can see Menecin having interactions with them, as well as the others, particularly Lespheria, Amandur, or Hanasian, as the action gets to Rivendell. How does that sound?

07-26-2003, 07:58 AM	#40
Nerindel Spirited Weaver of Fates Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: In an endless sea of dreams! Posts: 827	Wow Everyone this is great [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Léspheria will leave without Amandur, she will wish him to keep a watchful eye on Vanwe, but she will not go far when a messenger will intercept her with a message from her brother, telling her to stay and help Amandur. which she will do reluctantly of course. I will try to get my bio's up Tomorrow. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live" ~ Mark Twain.