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07-17-2021, 11:15 AM | #1 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,795
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I love Smith, but have a possibly quite basic question: is there an origin for Tolkien's infatuation with stars on people's brows? Earendil, Elendil, Aragorn, technically Morgoth, Smith... it's a definite theme, and I have no idea whether it comes from anything, or he just came up with the idea and really liked it.
(And is there any connection to Marc Bolan? ) hS
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Have you burned the ships that could bear you back again? ~Finrod: The Rock Opera |
07-18-2021, 07:01 PM | #2 |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
Posts: 7,066
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Smith is my favorite of everything written by Tolkien, and that's saying something because I love so much of what he wrote.
I remember when I was younger, identifying with 'one of the boys,' who in eating his slice of cake had taken in the Star and it stayed with him without him noticing it. And he gave a coin to the girl sitting next to him who was so disappointed that nothing lucky was in her slice. One of the great treasures of this story is that there is such an economy in the story telling: everything that is included drives the story home, whether through plot, character, theme, or milieu. And the evocation is so utterly real. It brings it home, to a place inside of me that I can only fail to describe with any accuracy. This story makes whatever it is that Tolkien evokes, call to me like nothing ever could. Have you ever wanted to laugh and cry at once, not knowing which you would rather do, or could do? This is that story for me. |
07-18-2021, 08:16 PM | #3 |
Stormdancer of Doom
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Stars, Smiths and dancing in the woods
Huinesoron— Nimrodel !
“A star was bound upon her brow A light was on her hair” Smith of WM reminds me of LMP’s old thread “it feels different near the Shire.” The elf Queen reminds me more of Goldberry than Galadriel. Less remote, more near to the heart—until she is revealed as the elf queen. Dancing in the woods always sang to me. Music in the forest. Stars through the trees. But over all the story strikes me as well past Fourth Age— as Sharon would say, seventh age— and the elves are too remote: so sad. Give me first age Beleriand. Or, at least Rivendell. But back to the Shire. Finding the elf queen dancing in the woods is like finding Gildor in Woody end. Having to surrender the star at the end of the Smith’s tenure— I don’t know. Too sad.
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...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. |
07-19-2021, 03:57 AM | #4 | |||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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The Baggins of Wootton Major
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Otherwise: just from the opening couple of paraghraphs, there is a barrage of similarities to other Tolkien's works. There are minor associations this induces, such as the village's position within the landscabe reminding me of Bree and its neighbouring villages (one village on the edge of the wood, another smaller one already in - just like Bree vs. Combe, Archet and Staddle). This may be a minor matter, but as a writer, I know that often images of places in one's imagination overlap and are "reused" - not consciously - and this might very well be the same case. But there are also bigger similarities. I recall having first read it with "Giles" back-to-back and no wonder some of it has blurred in my mind: both stories start with the description of a local custom of a feast where the Cook makes their Great Project (be it the dragon's tail or the cake) always at a given time, basically around Christmas. There is also the generic setting, the village with its set of characters with their flaws and sort of obliviousness to the magic that is in their midst - that is more similar to the Shire and the Hobbits' attitude towards Bilbo and Frodo. Or to all the pragmatic but awful people in Niggle. The new cook has, to me, some vague resemblance to Mr. Parish. The most striking in the opening paraghraphs is probably the old Cook's departure, which is without reservation comparable to Bilbo's. "Tell them that I am taking a longer holiday and that I am not coming back" - does this even need to be elaborated on in any way? And I am pretty sure the parallels don't end there. I recall, for one, the scene where Alf intimidates the cook in the same manner as Gandalf the Grey uncloaked. I have had only time to read a part of the story now and I will have to finish it later. But when I do, especially once I get to the Queen, I am sure that I will still have quite a bit to say. I am actually very curious how I am going to perceive the story now - I must have last read it nearly two decades ago.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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07-22-2021, 04:34 AM | #5 |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
Posts: 7,066
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I have read an article somewhere (Mythlore magazine, or a book?) in which it was speculated that the Great Kitchen and its Master Cook stood in for the Church and its Priest. I don't think I agree, because many villages and towns in real life, like Wootton Major in this story, have some aspect that is expanded and elaborated.
One town in Michigan is 'Christmas all year.' Another has its Oktoberfest with real trebuchets that throw pumpkins in the bay. And those are just two examples within a few hours' drive from where I live. I think that it's better to view this as a creation for the sake of this story, with plot, characters, theme, and miliue, all of a piece. |
07-23-2021, 02:26 AM | #6 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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This is first obviously meant to be "a cultural influence of Faery" and perhaps a sort of metaphore for "restoring the old and forgotten, the mythology to its right place", but still, can it be more? Can it be, in broad terms, somehow connected to Tolkien's love for the "old-fashioned look" of churches, perhaps even in the forms of liturgy and so on? (Is anybody aware of Tolkien's view of older forms of Roman Catholic mass as opposed to more modern ones? However I am not aware of there being any "modern" or, contrarily, "restoration" movements at least as far as liturgy is concerned around that time yet, that would fall only towards 1960s and the Second Vatican Council, but perhaps someone specifically well-versed in Roman Catholic history would know whether there had been some minor attempts at changes already back when the Smith was written).
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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07-23-2021, 12:51 PM | #7 | |
Dead Serious
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But it's something Tolkien could have picked up on earlier. Though not the same degree as the 1960s, there was a lot of liturgical tinkering in the 1950s that someone who spoke fluent Latin as an active Catholic might have noticed, such as the revised Holy Week rites. It was also a time of architectural change--at least on this side of the ocean, the 1950s was already a time of designing "ugly" rather than "timeless" Churches, and if that was true in a cultural backwater like western Canada, I imagine Catholic churches being erected in the same postwar period in England would have had examples of the same. At the very least, as something very much in Tolkien's world at the time he was writing Smith, changes in ritual--and the lack of necessity in his view for the same--are eminently plausible as the intellectual backdrop of his thinking here, regardless of whether they may be intentional themes or parallels.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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07-23-2021, 03:46 PM | #8 | |
Itinerant Songster
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: The Edge of Faerie
Posts: 7,066
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I still hold with my general approach that the plot, them, and characters, and milieu are all of a piece, and this story, like most of Tolkien's writings, steers clear of overt religion. As you mention, Legate, the gargoyles and such are a cultural element and need not be a religious one. |
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07-23-2021, 09:12 PM | #9 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,979
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One of the things I have been contemplating as I reread this, is why Fairie has to be limited to just one human with access at a time.
Why does only Smith have access to Fairie and not anyone else? His family knows of it but never joins him. Despite his friendships with the C.B.S. and the Inklings, did he feel that he alone had access to Fairie, no one else?
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
07-24-2021, 06:44 AM | #10 | |
Dead Serious
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Even in the TCBS days (his greatest experience of literary like-mindedness), I think there's enough in the surviving letters to show that each of the lads had a different literary vision/desire. They were each transfixed by the others' and were privileged to been shared with them, but I think there's ample evidence in the letters that although there was a creative welter from their interactions, each of them who created still created alone--i.e. they were made for their friends and because of their friends, but nothing approaches being co-authored. And, of course, that's BEFORE the TCBS gets halved and Tolkien goes into his post-war life (and the bulk of his literary career). As an autobiographical bit, I think entering faerie alone is well-supported.
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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07-25-2021, 08:38 AM | #11 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Thank you both, Form and LMP, for your responses to my queries. (Also for some reason I had been thinking that the Smith was earlier than the 60s, but now that just further makes me think that there indeed may have been some either conscious or unconscious influence on Tolkien and this possible polemic.)
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By that I mean that I am not entirely sure that I side with the "heroes" of this story, at least on the emotional level. On the general level, I of course despise the "materialistic" Noakes and I very much appreciate the message, the value of Faery, the beauty, all that. But the way it is presented, if you take it just as a story, it seems at least to me that both the Smith and Alf are terrible jerks. The Smith spends large part of his life leaving his family and work for travelling somewhere away from them. I mean, no problem with recreation - but I have always wondered, why wouldn't he take his wife or kids with him? Instead, he is all "look, kids! I have visited magical places, isn't it cool!" while the kids have to sit at home and probably live as boring life as the old cook. (And here comes the question - obviously the story makes it clear that the kids didn't have the star, but don't tell me that there wouldn't be a way for the Smith to figure something out during all these years. It would be a completely different thing if they weren't interested at all, but they do not seem to be entirely disinterested. Imagine being able to literally walk for example into Middle-Earth and then just always return home late evening to brag about it to your family.) And as for Alf, he I find him to be quite a manipulative fellow who is terribly full of himself. He does not speak straight and he just installs himself into the village to manipulate human fates. Sure, that is what fairies in traditional mythology *do*. But the story does not show it as in any way problematic, it still presents as if Alf was 100% in the right, the Smith's response to him is very much "yes sir thank you sir I will do as you say sir". For instance Gandalf was similarly manipulative at times, but he had a clear good agenda and he tried to speak openly to the Bagginses once he knew something. Did anyone else perceive these things as problematic or was it just me? EDIT: This is not Werewolf, but I feel that it is notable - in terms of the expected level of activity on the 'Downs - that I have apparently just crossposted with two people!
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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