Gandalf Captured!?

[ninja91]

In the Fellowship of the Ring, in the chapter A Journey in the Dark, Gandalf says the following:

"I alone of you have ever been in the dungeons of the Dark Lord, and only in his older and lesser dwelling in Dol Guldur."

How and when did this happen?

[lathspell]

Yes, Gandalf did indeed venture into Dol Guldur once. I don't have the books with me at te moment, so I can't tell you te exact date, but it was in the time that Sauron was still in Mirkwood and known as the Necromancer (as they also call him in the Hobbit). I have often wondered wether that wasn't what Gandalf had been doing when he left Bilbo and the dwarves to do something important for the White Council.

Anyway, the White Council was ofcourse aware of something evil lurking in Dol Guldur, and they suspected it was Sauron. Gandalf ventured into the fortress to find out if it really was Sauron. It was! Gandalf got back out, fled to Lothlorien and consulted the council. The White Council then went to Dol Guldur to fight Sauron, but he knew of their plans and had already commanded his Nazgul to make Barad-dur ready for his coming. Thus, the White Council came to Dol Guldur and found no Sauron there, for he was already in Mordor.
However, Gandalf says in the Unfinished Tales (in his own version of the Hobbit as he tells it to Frodo) that he believes that if Sauron wasn't forced to move to Mordor, he would probably have attacked the North first, thus wiping out Lothlorien and maybe Rivendell. And... would the dwarves have succeeded in killing Smaug, probably them as well.

I don't know if you know the game MERP (Middle-Earth Role Play), but in their version of the book 'Dol Guldur', there's the story as they think it happened.

greetings,
lathspell

[Selmo]

Gandalf didn't go sneaking into Dol Guldur when he left the Dwarves in Mirkwood.
On that occasion he went to help the White Council drive Sauron out.

He was in Dol Guldur's dungeons many years before. That's where he found Thorin's father and got from him the map and the key to the side door of the Lonely Mountain.
.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by lathspell

I have often wondered wether that wasn't what Gandalf had been doing when he left Bilbo and the dwarves to do something important for the White Council.

Actually, as Selmo correctly said, this was the moment when the White Council attacked Dol Guldur and wiped Sauron out! (well... actually he retreated to Mordor, but that's not our problem for now) Gandalf says it to Frodo in the Shadow of the Past:

'When did I first begin to guess?' he mused, searching back in memory. 'Let me see – it was in the year that the White Council drove the dark power from Mirkwood, just before the Battle of Five Armies, that Bilbo found his ring.

And it is even mentioned in the Hobbit:

It was in this way that he learned where Gandalf had been to; for he overheard the words of the wizard to Elrond. It appeared that Gandalf had been to a great council of the white wizards, masters of lore and good magic; and that they had at last driven the Necromancer from his dark hold in the south of Mirkwood.
"Ere long now," Gandalf was saying, "The Forest will grow somewhat more wholesome. The North will be freed from that horror for many long years, I hope. Yet I wish he were banished from the world!"
"It would be well indeed," said Elrond; "but I fear that will not come about in this age of the world, or for many after."

This is one of the most wonderful moments in The Hobbit for me! Gandalf, right from the parting by Beorn's house, rides south to Dol Guldur to kick the Necromancer! I love when these pieces come up together, you know?

Originally Posted by lathspell

However, Gandalf says in the Unfinished Tales (in his own version of the Hobbit as he tells it to Frodo) that he believes that if Sauron wasn't forced to move to Mordor, he would probably have attacked the North first, thus wiping out Lothlorien and maybe Rivendell. And... would the dwarves have succeeded in killing Smaug, probably them as well.

Ahem, to be more precise: not "would the dwarves have succeeded in killing Smaug, probably them as well" - or why, of course - but mainly: "would the dwarves NOT have succeeded in killing Smaug, he'd send his emissaries to the Dragon and then..."

...Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador, night in Rivendell...

And ninja, great topic. Ask these things, because this is one of my favourite subjects of study

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

How do you suppose Gandalf managed to get into the dungeon and speak with Thráin? Were there no guards?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I suppose right down there there weren't any guards. Cf. Bilbo and Thorin in Thranduil's halls, something like that. Gandalf says that Sauron took the Ring and didn't care anymore (he even didn't take the map and key of Erebor - read the UT, he speaks very much of it there).