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#1 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
Posts: 279
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#2 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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#3 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
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#4 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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End result: Men awaken ca. 10,000 years before the Trees are killed. But, I'm not going to change the table, because that's a fairly long string of logic. The table records Tolkien's thoughts (or potential thoughts, in the Astronomy version) at various times; it doesn't attempt to make a "final timeline". That comes next. ![]() ![]() ![]() hS
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#5 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
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Frankly, I much prefer your c. 6,000 years figure in your attempt to devise a 'final' timeline of the First Age. But, after all, that's just my personal preference. P.S. This may or may not be a good place to share this little tidbit about the Awakening of the Dwarves: Then Aulë took the Seven Dwarves and laid them to rest under stone in far-sundered places, and beside each he laid his mate, save only beside the Eldest, and he lay alone. And Aulë returned to Valinor and waited long as best he might. But it is not known when Durin or his brethren first awoke, though some think that it was at the time of the departure of the Eldar over sea. - The War of the Jewels, 'The Later Quenta Silmarillion', 'Concerning the Dwarves', pp. 211-2 Which would put the Awakening of the Dwarves in c. VY 870/872 in your recreation of the 'final' timeline scheme (https://docs.google.com/document/d/e..._2clV5l-ki/pub).
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#6 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
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NoME 1.XIII.1 - Quendi awake VY 850, VY = 144 years. Finding VY 864 (2016). XVII.3 - last scheme, Finding FA 2016, March ca. 2232. XIII.2A - explicitly marks the Awakening as "First Age Begins". XVII.2 - Trees destroyed VY 888, "if the Awakening were c. 800", this is where the 13,000 year figure comes from. So yes, that was wrong. XD The First Age starts in VY 850 with the Awakening, and the Trees die in VY 888. My 'Final Timeline' is correct. So Men awaken in 866, some 3100 years before the death of the Trees. The dwarves... well, it's difficult, because I always thought the dwarves came before Men, but your quote would have them waking about 3 VY after Men. I don't think those two figures can fit together. hS
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#7 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2000
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"The Dwarves were in a special position. They claimed to have known Beleriand before even the Eldar first came there; and there do appear to have been small groups dwelling furtively in the highlands west of Sirion from a very early date: they attacked and waylaid the Elves by stealth..." Quendi and Eldar, Note 7
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#8 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Tol Morwen
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With that said, though: which version is the latest? I'd assume the one you quoted from the Quendi and Eldar (c. 1960 or so, I think).
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