The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - LotR

mark12_30 · 06-07-2004, 11:57 AM

Bethberry and davem,

I would like to further focus on the difference between allegory and applicability, and between allegory and mythology.

Tolkien used the word "history" to refer to LotR; allow me to do the same for a moment. Applicability belongs to history, I think. "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it"-- not in a literal sense, of course, but because of failure to apply the lessons learned to current-day issues. Those lessons learned-- from history, from LOTR-- are applicable. Let the trees be. Subjugation is nasty. Virtue is better than vice. These are applicable lessons learned. And Tolkien used his language to make his points; for instance, those who cut down trees are orcs because they've lost the ability to see something for more than what it is made of. This isn't allegory. It's plain simile/ metaphor.

History, to be applicable, need not treat the supernatural, or anything metaphysical. However, myth (and Faerie-tale) is all about the meeting of the natural and the supernatural. Tolkien desired to write a myth for England; this we know, although he doesn't mention it in the foreword. For the story to have the supernatural impact of a myth, he had to let it go-- completely-- release any domination that he might have liked to exert.

A myth has to be a good story, or nobody will repeat it. It has to hold together as a story, it has to entertain, and move, or it will be forgotten. And if it is forgotten, it cannot enlighten.

In order for a myth to point to the "One True Myth" (see On Faery Stories) it must be a good enough myth to survive. It has to be a good story, entertaining, interesting, moving. He had to start there. In a sense, he had to wind it up, set it on the floor, and let it go-- to see if anyone would wind it up again after he was done. Was it interesting enough to live, to last, to be a myth?

With hindsight we say "of course."

However, in order for the reader to let his myth be a myth, and not an allegory, or a cheesy simile for world politics, he had to (in a sense) rein in his readers, and tell them: Just read the story. If the truth is going to shine through it, it doesn't need my help or yours. Just listen to the story, and see what happens.

06-07-2004, 11:57 AM	#15
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Bethberry and davem, I would like to further focus on the difference between allegory and applicability, and between allegory and mythology. Tolkien used the word "history" to refer to LotR; allow me to do the same for a moment. Applicability belongs to history, I think. "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it"-- not in a literal sense, of course, but because of failure to apply the lessons learned to current-day issues. Those lessons learned-- from history, from LOTR-- are applicable. Let the trees be. Subjugation is nasty. Virtue is better than vice. These are applicable lessons learned. And Tolkien used his language to make his points; for instance, those who cut down trees are orcs because they've lost the ability to see something for more than what it is made of. This isn't allegory. It's plain simile/ metaphor. History, to be applicable, need not treat the supernatural, or anything metaphysical. However, myth (and Faerie-tale) is all about the meeting of the natural and the supernatural. Tolkien desired to write a myth for England; this we know, although he doesn't mention it in the foreword. For the story to have the supernatural impact of a myth, he had to let it go-- completely-- release any domination that he might have liked to exert. A myth has to be a good story, or nobody will repeat it. It has to hold together as a story, it has to entertain, and move, or it will be forgotten. And if it is forgotten, it cannot enlighten. In order for a myth to point to the "One True Myth" (see On Faery Stories) it must be a good enough myth to survive. It has to be a good story, entertaining, interesting, moving. He had to start there. In a sense, he had to wind it up, set it on the floor, and let it go-- to see if anyone would wind it up again after he was done. Was it interesting enough to live, to last, to be a myth? With hindsight we say "of course." However, in order for the reader to let his myth be a myth, and not an allegory, or a cheesy simile for world politics, he had to (in a sense) rein in his readers, and tell them: Just read the story. If the truth is going to shine through it, it doesn't need my help or yours. Just listen to the story, and see what happens. __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve. Last edited by mark12_30; 06-07-2004 at 01:25 PM.