The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum - View Single Post - Deeper symbolism and hidden meanings in the books

Eruantalon · 01-23-2003, 12:28 AM

Well I have a strange personalty.With that said you might understand what I am about to say better.I have noticed what seems to me to be hidden symbolism.Take for instince numbers and places and time frames all with in a strange repetive theme.

When you have lived to exerince things in this life.You tend to look at things more deeply.You tend to have more to say about things.You have understood more meaningfull experices.

I think after experincing two world wars,
children,Oxford,lifes tribulations he had a lot to say.Comming from a transition time he must have seen the world change a lot.

Art is nothing without somthing to say.He had a lot to say.Is saying it lightly.

First possibal hidden meaning

There are three ages and six books.But each book could be viewed as half an age.There are 3 ages in the Lord of the Rings saga.But they should not be seen as seprate only as a whole.Since Tolkien wanted to have it all published as an entire story.We don't move through time in segments.It is a flowing constant.Think of it as a river.You can site places as sections but the river has a beggining and end.Time works in the same way.So he is experessing three ages in time.And symbolicly in the layout of the books.Making them reflect the ages and story at the same time.Three ages untill the end of Morgoths end.Three books that tell the story.Well yes I know theres 6 but like I said they seem to be broken into 3 seprate ideals.

So just as the three ages are viewed so are the books.The first age deals with Elves the most.They visit the last of the Elven havens.They deal with a lot of pain and grief.But it doesn't start off that way.It starts off with peace and beauty.

Notice how the hobbit and The Fellowship of the Ring start off with the word party.Although the party is plesant in the begging it always ends with upset and problems.But the party is a repetive aspect in the storys.Take Manwes party for the bounty.Then Morgoth comes around and destroys the beauty of the two trees.

Again it starts off with happyness and ends with problems.Although its a much bigger problem it still follows the idea.

The second age deals more with men and less with Elves.Again it is trying to follow a pattern.Kind of like the Elves are fading slowly in the books to the age of men.The books actualy do the same.The great beattel that begins everything.Just like the first world war.The men who are not ready but willing.Just like the boys who whent out in that war.So you see less and less of the Elves untill you get to the final age.

Then the final age a great war defeating the last powerfull servent of Morgoth.The king is found.The throne is restored all is well.So what do you see in that.I see a few things.One the return of what was lost.This is a powerfull theme in these books.The return of beauty that the Valar created in the west.The return of a beautifull city that the Elves longed for Gondolin.The Return of the heir to the Noldorian throne Elrond.Well I figure he would recive the throne since he is the desendent and returns to the blessed realm.

It also reflects the change of the world that Tolkien experinced.He was born in a vary differnt time than when he died.Just think about that.Amagine seeing the world change so much in 50 years.Think of when he was born and when he died.Amagine what you will see in that time.

One day it might seem like a long forgotten age to you.You could have felt like you lived many life time in that span of years.Just like Gandalf did.Remember,after he fought the Blarog.I have some thoughts on the Tolkien Gandalf connection to.

Gandalf: smokes a pipe.Lead into battels to aid.Was put one ME to inspire and bring people togther.Learned in lore and languages.Understans many writing systems.

Tolkien:Also smoks a pipe.Was a Leutenent in world war 1.Saw some vary big battels in that war.The bloodest of them all if I am not wrong.He as an office was there to inspire and bring his men togther.Loved lore and was always fasinated by languaes.Also had command over many.

The list goes on and on.You can probaly name more than I.When Gandalfs time is over he goes to the Blessed Realm.Just like I belive Tolkien did.Both helped what was worth fighting for.Both loved nature and every good thing in it.

numbers
Well I see an almost obvious connection to certin numbers.

Morgoth realed in 3 ages.Again there is a connection with that number.Three joining of men and Elves last being Arwen and Aragon.3 rings of power to the Elves.If you counted all the ring sauron would have two on each finger.But with the ring of power, on one finger there would be 3.The tree that would keep the line of the Numeon(sorry if I spelled that wrong) is the grand son of the tree that was made in the image of one of the two trees.I might be wrong about that but I think thats right.That would make it the 3rd image of that tree.

There are more but I will talk about them later.Its pretty late here.If people are intersted I will elaborate on more.I haven't even talked about the infulence of trees in the story.How they are reflected in so many ways.

So have you seen anything like what I am talking about here.Maybe you have noticed repeating themes,ideas,or numbers in the books.

Tell me what you think.Does this all seem outragious to you.I am interested to hear what anyone thinks.

[ January 23, 2003: Message edited by: Eruantalon ]

[ January 23, 2003: Message edited by: Eruantalon ]

01-23-2003, 12:28 AM	#1
Eruantalon Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gondor Posts: 139	Deeper symbolism and hidden meanings in the books Well I have a strange personalty.With that said you might understand what I am about to say better.I have noticed what seems to me to be hidden symbolism.Take for instince numbers and places and time frames all with in a strange repetive theme. When you have lived to exerince things in this life.You tend to look at things more deeply.You tend to have more to say about things.You have understood more meaningfull experices. I think after experincing two world wars, children,Oxford,lifes tribulations he had a lot to say.Comming from a transition time he must have seen the world change a lot. Art is nothing without somthing to say.He had a lot to say.Is saying it lightly. First possibal hidden meaning There are three ages and six books.But each book could be viewed as half an age.There are 3 ages in the Lord of the Rings saga.But they should not be seen as seprate only as a whole.Since Tolkien wanted to have it all published as an entire story.We don't move through time in segments.It is a flowing constant.Think of it as a river.You can site places as sections but the river has a beggining and end.Time works in the same way.So he is experessing three ages in time.And symbolicly in the layout of the books.Making them reflect the ages and story at the same time.Three ages untill the end of Morgoths end.Three books that tell the story.Well yes I know theres 6 but like I said they seem to be broken into 3 seprate ideals. So just as the three ages are viewed so are the books.The first age deals with Elves the most.They visit the last of the Elven havens.They deal with a lot of pain and grief.But it doesn't start off that way.It starts off with peace and beauty. Notice how the hobbit and The Fellowship of the Ring start off with the word party.Although the party is plesant in the begging it always ends with upset and problems.But the party is a repetive aspect in the storys.Take Manwes party for the bounty.Then Morgoth comes around and destroys the beauty of the two trees. Again it starts off with happyness and ends with problems.Although its a much bigger problem it still follows the idea. The second age deals more with men and less with Elves.Again it is trying to follow a pattern.Kind of like the Elves are fading slowly in the books to the age of men.The books actualy do the same.The great beattel that begins everything.Just like the first world war.The men who are not ready but willing.Just like the boys who whent out in that war.So you see less and less of the Elves untill you get to the final age. Then the final age a great war defeating the last powerfull servent of Morgoth.The king is found.The throne is restored all is well.So what do you see in that.I see a few things.One the return of what was lost.This is a powerfull theme in these books.The return of beauty that the Valar created in the west.The return of a beautifull city that the Elves longed for Gondolin.The Return of the heir to the Noldorian throne Elrond.Well I figure he would recive the throne since he is the desendent and returns to the blessed realm. It also reflects the change of the world that Tolkien experinced.He was born in a vary differnt time than when he died.Just think about that.Amagine seeing the world change so much in 50 years.Think of when he was born and when he died.Amagine what you will see in that time. One day it might seem like a long forgotten age to you.You could have felt like you lived many life time in that span of years.Just like Gandalf did.Remember,after he fought the Blarog.I have some thoughts on the Tolkien Gandalf connection to. Gandalf: smokes a pipe.Lead into battels to aid.Was put one ME to inspire and bring people togther.Learned in lore and languages.Understans many writing systems. Tolkien:Also smoks a pipe.Was a Leutenent in world war 1.Saw some vary big battels in that war.The bloodest of them all if I am not wrong.He as an office was there to inspire and bring his men togther.Loved lore and was always fasinated by languaes.Also had command over many. The list goes on and on.You can probaly name more than I.When Gandalfs time is over he goes to the Blessed Realm.Just like I belive Tolkien did.Both helped what was worth fighting for.Both loved nature and every good thing in it. numbers Well I see an almost obvious connection to certin numbers. Morgoth realed in 3 ages.Again there is a connection with that number.Three joining of men and Elves last being Arwen and Aragon.3 rings of power to the Elves.If you counted all the ring sauron would have two on each finger.But with the ring of power, on one finger there would be 3.The tree that would keep the line of the Numeon(sorry if I spelled that wrong) is the grand son of the tree that was made in the image of one of the two trees.I might be wrong about that but I think thats right.That would make it the 3rd image of that tree. There are more but I will talk about them later.Its pretty late here.If people are intersted I will elaborate on more.I haven't even talked about the infulence of trees in the story.How they are reflected in so many ways. So have you seen anything like what I am talking about here.Maybe you have noticed repeating themes,ideas,or numbers in the books. Tell me what you think.Does this all seem outragious to you.I am interested to hear what anyone thinks. [ January 23, 2003: Message edited by: Eruantalon ] [ January 23, 2003: Message edited by: Eruantalon ]